A CHef/Cooking Question...Cookderosa U out there?

[rebel100]

Hello all,

This question is specifically for Cookderosa, but I’m happy to have input from anyone and thought the subject matter could be of interest to many, so I decided to ask this here on the main forum.

Cook, my daughter is very interested in cooking/becoming a chef. I’m happy to support such a decision but it’s not a career path I’m particularly familiar with. I’m looking for advice on how she might proceed.

She is 17 and a dual enrolled student. Homeschool / local Community College. She is tearing through her pre-reqs with 30 credits accumulated so far and an A average in the CC courses. A couple of the area CC’s offer AS degree’s in Culinary Arts. Some of the local Vo-Techs offer similar courses (though they don’t result in direct college credit).

Question is…what would you recommend? My inclination is to continue pushing for an AA degree then perhaps a generic Management degree. And allow her to take the cooking courses as electives if she wishes. I have seen you post that cooking is a profession that values experience over formal education. That being the case, I don’t see great value in college courses to pursue such a job. At the same time, what courses could she take to at least insure she won’t start at the very bottom if she goes to work in a restaurant.

We live in Central Florida so there are a lot of opportunities for job shadowing and work experience. That also means a strong job market. On the other hand having lots of potential jobs here does not guarantee employment in the job you want. We met a waitress in a trendy local gastro pub (if that’s a real thing) who claimed to have a degree from CIA yet was waiting tables as a way to get her foot in the door!

So what do you think? What’s a good game plan?

Thanks for your advice in advance! I’ve always found your post’s to be very informative!

[cookderosa]

Hello all,

This question is specifically for Cookderosa, but I’m happy to have input from anyone and thought the subject matter could be of interest to many, so I decided to ask this here on the main forum.

Cook, my daughter is very interested in cooking/becoming a chef. I’m happy to support such a decision but it’s not a career path I’m particularly familiar with. I’m looking for advice on how she might proceed.

She is 17 and a dual enrolled student. Homeschool / local Community College. She is tearing through her pre-reqs with 30 credits accumulated so far and an A average in the CC courses. A couple of the area CC’s offer AS degree’s in Culinary Arts. Some of the local Vo-Techs offer similar courses (though they don’t result in direct college credit).

Question is…what would you recommend? My inclination is to continue pushing for an AA degree then perhaps a generic Management degree. And allow her to take the cooking courses as electives if she wishes. I have seen you post that cooking is a profession that values experience over formal education. That being the case, I don’t see great value in college courses to pursue such a job. At the same time, what courses could she take to at least insure she won’t start at the very bottom if she goes to work in a restaurant.

We live in Central Florida so there are a lot of opportunities for job shadowing and work experience. That also means a strong job market. On the other hand having lots of potential jobs here does not guarantee employment in the job you want. We met a waitress in a trendy local gastro pub (if that’s a real thing) who claimed to have a degree from CIA yet was waiting tables as a way to get her foot in the door!

So what do you think? What’s a good game plan?

Thanks for your advice in advance! I’ve always found your post’s to be very informative!

A good game plan is one that hits her goals. There are a lot of different goals for people in my field, what's hers?

Best culinary school on the planet: Welcome to the world's premier culinary college in New York-The Culinary Institute of America The Culinary Institute of America.

Cheapest culinary programs: any community college degree (but this is sooooo all over the place, it comes down to instruction and ACF accreditation)

Avoid: the franchise for-profits. This includes Cordon Bleu and Arts Institute.



I won't plug my own school, but I'm opening a culinary school this fall Too bad she doesn't want to move to Moline Illinois! LOL

There are a lot of things to look for, but at the end of the day, this field is ALL ABOUT WHAT SHE CAN DO. Degrees are optional in this field, and quite frankly, a lot of chefs have never been to culinary school. A management degree is NOT the degree for her to become a chef, that degree results in a front house (dining room) manager/bar manager of a restaurant. Nothing wrong with that, but just know what leads where. If she's good, that road also takes you to general manager areas, including hotels and clubs- but her path must include working for good chains like Ritz or Hilton.

Lastly, I do have a degree from CIA, and I'd wait tables for Charlie Trotter to get my foot in the door if I were 18. This business requires that kind of fortitude and assertiveness. You have no idea how many years I did EVERY competition, EVERY show, EVERY event, EVERY TV spot, EVERY culinary chapter event in my area- all for free. I assure you that if he wants to be a famous chef, she's going to spend a LOT of years washing pots for big names, and they'll be 24 people lined up behind her waiting for her to make a mistake. There will be people coming in and working for free, just showing up,working, hoping to catch the chef's eye. THIS is why a degree isn't everything.

BUT, a CIA degree will absolutely provide her with job security. If she isn't aiming for the top 1% of the industry, she'll enjoy having her pick of the other 99%. For me, I always loved education, and have spent the past 20 years in culinary education- I love what I do! It was because of my degree that I landed my first department head job at 22. My husband, also a CIA grad and chef, loves what he does, but it's significantly different than what makes me tick. He has always spent his time in the kitchen.

So, her goals will determine her best path. But, I'm happy to help.

[rebel100]

(Rebel100's daughter responding )


The long term goal is to run and be a chef of my own restaurant. I would like to be known for my food, and I do not want to be a “celebrity” chef. Right now this is an extremely boastful statement, because I don’t know what I am doing in the kitchen. Would it be best to enter a local culinary program just for the knowledge (not the credentials) so I would know what I’m doing on my first day of work, or will I be taught while I work or job shadow? Thank you very much for your time and input!

[cookderosa]

(Rebel100's daughter responding )


The long term goal is to run and be a chef of my own restaurant. I would like to be known for my food, and I do not want to be a “celebrity” chef. Right now this is an extremely boastful statement, because I don’t know what I am doing in the kitchen. Would it be best to enter a local culinary program just for the knowledge (not the credentials) so I would know what I’m doing on my first day of work, or will I be taught while I work or job shadow? Thank you very much for your time and input!

If you want to own your own place you need 3 skill sets.
1. Entrepreneurial spirit, you're born with it or you're not.
2. Cooking ability. The wrong program means learning everything wrong.
3. Business know-how. Running things is different from being an employee who cooks.


7 out of 10 restaurants fail. These are not idiots, these are chefs, trained people and still they fail. (granted, some must be idiots by the law of averages, lol but that's not my point!)

If I were your instructor, I'd tell you you're 10 years away from even deciding "if" you want to open your own place. You don't know enough to know if you could or should. You don't know what you don't know. HOWEVER, that's not a bad thing- you are young and ready to take on the world Right now it's time to dive in with both feet. Yes job shadow. Yes get a job. Yes meet local chefs. Yes join your local chef's association junior chapter (google American Culinary Federation for your local chapter). Do all of that. Do it first, then pick your school, then get your education, get your experience, then decide what you want to do with your skill set.

If you're going with a local program, would you mind saying which ones you are considering? I can generalize all day about how to pick/choose, but I'm happy to give you specific feedback if I know where you're considering.

Lastly, before you decide, pack you and your mom into the car- hop on 95 North, take Route 9 into Hyde Park, and check out CIA. If only to eliminate it from your list. It'll cost you a couple hundred bucks in gas and $75 to stay at the Poughkeepsie Super 8. Know what your choices are before you pick. It's a weekend, but it could change your life.

[OE800_85]

I know this is really down the line and not necessarily at this point in your career, but there are lots of chefs going abroad now. I have a friend here who's been a sous-chef at one of the top restaurants in shanghai specializing in molecular gastronomy, and is now in the process of opening a new restaurant.
One great thing about cooking is the opportunity to travel and cook in some exotic/different places. If you love that sort of thing, take the opportunity to do it after you get some experience

[rebel100]

If you want to own your own place you need 3 skill sets.
1. Entrepreneurial spirit, you're born with it or you're not.
2. Cooking ability. The wrong program means learning everything wrong.
3. Business know-how. Running things is different from being an employee who cooks.


7 out of 10 restaurants fail. These are not idiots, these are chefs, trained people and still they fail. (granted, some must be idiots by the law of averages, lol but that's not my point!)

If I were your instructor, I'd tell you you're 10 years away from even deciding "if" you want to open your own place. You don't know enough to know if you could or should. You don't know what you don't know. HOWEVER, that's not a bad thing- you are young and ready to take on the world Right now it's time to dive in with both feet. Yes job shadow. Yes get a job. Yes meet local chefs. Yes join your local chef's association junior chapter (google American Culinary Federation for your local chapter). Do all of that. Do it first, then pick your school, then get your education, get your experience, then decide what you want to do with your skill set.

If you're going with a local program, would you mind saying which ones you are considering? I can generalize all day about how to pick/choose, but I'm happy to give you specific feedback if I know where you're considering.

Lastly, before you decide, pack you and your mom into the car- hop on 95 North, take Route 9 into Hyde Park, and check out CIA. If only to eliminate it from your list. It'll cost you a couple hundred bucks in gas and $75 to stay at the Poughkeepsie Super 8. Know what your choices are before you pick. It's a weekend, but it could change your life.

Ah Jennifer...YOUR THE BEST! Thanks so much for your excellent advice. It closely mirrors what I have been telling her

Im all for the CIA if thats where this leads, is there a big difference in the 3 campuses? I would think NY would be first choice but I'm just curious.

I understand it's a very different sort of education but do they still require math and english and humanities? in other words could a student transfer in with 60-90 credits and thereby shorten their stay at CIA or is it 4 full years of learning mother sauces and how to properly sear beef? Just totally lost on what their education entails.

Locally there are 2 Community Colleges that have programs. I though of having her take the two pre-reqs which I think are food safety and a course in cooking for large groups. once those are done she could sample the other offerings they have like baking/sauces/etc... One school that would seem likely to have a good program is Valencia Community College Culinary Management - Valencia Community College I would expect them to have a good program and they have hospitality management articulation agreements with Univ. of Central Florida (not that it matters about that really). Downside is that they don't seem to be affiliated with the ACF. Other local school is about an hour away but doable right now also. It is on the ACF list and that's Hillsborough CC Hillsborough Community College They are a smaller college than VCC and that might be appealing.

I don't know if attending some classes or getting a degree from one of these schools would be a big positive or negative. Would CIA welcome a student that already had some training, maybe even an AS from a CC? Would graduation from such a program make CIA less of an atteactive alternative?

the other schools are Vo-tech and not very well known. Le Cordon Bleu is also here in town but as you indicated, they seem sort of millish to me...though they are on the ACF list.

Is there another big culinary school in Providence RI? Johnson and Wales or something? It was mentioned to us by a local chef of some notariety (here in Fl.) I had never heard of them but he made out like they are pretty big and well known.

Sorry its so much....you seem eager to help and always appear to know your stuff!!!

Thanks so much !

Mike

btw, I took lil reb to NYC in Dec. for her birthday. it was an impromptu gastric crawl through some of the places she wanted to visit. Les Halles, MomoFuku Peche, Milk Bar, street food, Juniors, etc... We would love to go back that way to visit CIA. If the interest survives a little exposure and experience I'm pretty sure we can make a campus visit happen in the next year.....but don't tell lil reb or her Mamma just yet

[rebel100]

I know this is really down the line and not necessarily at this point in your career, but there are lots of chefs going abroad now. I have a friend here who's been a sous-chef at one of the top restaurants in shanghai specializing in molecular gastronomy, and is now in the process of opening a new restaurant.
One great thing about cooking is the opportunity to travel and cook in some exotic/different places. If you love that sort of thing, take the opportunity to do it after you get some experience

Did you really just encourage my baby to travel halfway around the world away from her Daddy!?

Actually it sounds like a lot of fun, funny the things you can become involved in! What in the world is molecular gastronomy?

[rebel100]

Jennifer,

The value shopper in me has to ask about the CIA Certifications Culinary Arts Certificate in San Antonio-The Culinary Institute of America Would there be industy appreciation for someone with a CC Culinary degree and a CIA Cert? I can even imagine lil reb testing out of Liberal Studies at COSC or TESC with a BS then venturing out to CIA for 30 weeks to get the cert. Just throwing it out there for your thoughts.....as if I haven't ask enough already!

I didn't mention that she is homeschool/dual enrolled as a HS junior and this year she will have 30 LL credits by mid may between the local CC and CLEPs. She also has an A average in all her courses taken at the CC, she is a great student and is motivated. She could finish or be very very close to an AA or AS by this time next year.

[OE800_85]

hey sorry, I've got the travel bug and am always pushing it on others, my apologies.

Molecular Gastronomy is kind of like scientific cooking. You use really modern avant-garde techniques to make food really exciting and different. They often use things like liquid nitrogen, and have a lot of fanfare with food. It kinda becomes about the experience. It's not for everyone but i think it's super cool. It's my favorite realm of cuisine.

Molecular gastronomy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[rebel100]

[QUOTE=OE800_85]hey sorry, I've got the travel bug and am always pushing it on others, my apologies.QUOTE]

Nothing to apologize for! I would like for her to travel, just get a little knot in my throat when I consider how close she is to being all grown up. My apologies if my comment didn't translate as an attempt at humor!