BA CS/BSBA CIS

[rachel83az]

I requested to add the BSBA CIS to my degree plan (I'm not sure I'm going to go through with it but I wanted to have it added just in case). The email I got back notifying me that it had been added also said that there is supposed to be NO overlap in the AOS between CS and CIS. What? I thought some minor overlap was allowed (9 credits). I thought the "no overlap" was only between the BSBA GM and other BSBA degrees.

[LevelUP]

I requested to add the BSBA CIS to my degree plan (I'm not sure I'm going to go through with it but I wanted to have it added just in case). The email I got back notifying me that it had been added also said that there is supposed to be NO overlap in the AOS between CS and CIS. What? I thought some minor overlap was allowed (9 credits). I thought the "no overlap" was only between the BSBA GM and other BSBA degrees.

Unless it's a new thing, they allow up to 9CR overlap as in my case.

Overlap are:
Systems Analysis
MIS
Database Management

CS UL you just add:
Computer Arch
TECEP Network or Coopersmith Linear Alegbra.

[rachel83az]

That's what I thought, which is why I was confused. It's very frustrating when they say different policies all the time.

[Merlin]

I requested to add the BSBA CIS to my degree plan (I'm not sure I'm going to go through with it but I wanted to have it added just in case). The email I got back notifying me that it had been added also said that there is supposed to be NO overlap in the AOS between CS and CIS. What? I thought some minor overlap was allowed (9 credits). I thought the "no overlap" was only between the BSBA GM and other BSBA degrees.

Unless it's a new thing, they allow up to 9CR overlap as in my case.

Overlap are:
Systems Analysis
MIS
Database Management

CS UL you just add:
Computer Arch
TECEP Network or Coopersmith Linear Alegbra.

That's what I thought, which is why I was confused. It's very frustrating when they say different policies all the time.

Always be careful when requesting information from the advisors. Verify their answers by checking the print catalog or the website for the current policy to be safe.

In this case, the 9 credit overlap rule specifically applies to adding a second area of study within a single degree. As in, you are getting a BA with two AOS. It doesn't apply two do completely different degrees like the BACS + BSBA CIS which are different degrees from different schools within TESU.

"Students may complete up to two areas of study within one bachelor’s degree. No more than 9 credits that are used in the first area of study may be used for the second area of study. All related required credits for each area of study, as well as all degree requirements, must be met at the same time." (TESU 2020-21 catalog, pp 188).

Additionally, the 9 credit rule does not apply to the BSBA.

"Students pursuing the Bachelor of Science in Business Administration degree may complete up to two areas of study within one bachelor's degree. No credit for the first area of study may be used toward the second area of study. All related required credits for each area of study, as well as degree requirements, must be met at the same time." (TESU 2020-21 catalog, pp 188).

They didn't use to allow you to pursue two simultaneous bachelor's degrees from different schools. When they added the allowance, they updated the policy so it is basically the same as the returning policy for a second bachelor's degree.

"Students who desire to have awarded in the same graduation cycle two Thomas Edison State University baccalaureate degrees may do so providing 24 credits are different in the second degree’s core/area of study." (TESU 2020-21 catalog, pp 189).

So, in your case, you can have as many credits overlap as you like between the two degrees as long as at least 24 credits (~8 courses) are different in the core and/or AOS between the two degrees.

[bjcheung77]

There are workarounds to everything, you'll still need to take some extra courses for both degrees, you can take extra computer science and/or math courses and get an ASNSM Associates in Math, that will add a couple of math courses along with the Capstone, you can add all the free TEEX courses as well including some general ed or free electives by using Sophia.org or the TEEX UL Death Investigation course as long as these "different/newer" courses are different than the BSBA CIS. Heck, if I was in your shoes, I'll pay for 16 credits instead of paying the residency waiver fee and use that to take courses towards the BACS.

[Turkish]

To add to the confusion, I've asked the same thing and I've been given different answers from Academic Advising in the last 6 months. I was told none of the 18 credits in the CIS section of the BSBA (Not AoS/Core) can be applied to the AoS of the BACS AND that 6 more credits had to be unique in the Core. This led to a discussion over which was the 'First' degree and the 'Second' degree regarding the AoS/Core. I went into detail about whether course 'instances' were taken into account. Whether a course could be retaken later and new credit applied. The answer was 'No'. When I asked about a different course that transfers into TESU as the same course, the answer was no. One class can only be used once in this scenario.

Ultimately, I was told they had checked with the Dean and they had said no courses could overlap under any circumstances.

Then later, when I tried to plan for more credits another advisor told me that was incorrect and when I said what I'd been told previous, the response was "there can be a 6 credit overlap of UL credits". In both cases, I asked for clarification and they both came back with additional details explaining that the answer they had given was correct.

I ended up deciding to pursue the other credits I needed, then figure out if there was an overlap problem because I couldn't get a concrete answer and even after multiple emails and I'd ended up more confused than before. I decided it would probably have to wait until I tried to apply for graduation.

To be entirely honest, the only person who has directed me to any written policy at TESU that I can verify myself is Merlin, two posts above this one.

I'm not trying to over complicate this or disagreeing with anyone here (bjcheung77 and Merlin are two of the most knowledgeable posters here)[url=https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/User-bjcheung77][/url]. I'm just agreeing that academic advising, even in written form, can be incorrect and I'm very VERY interested in the correct answer on this question.

[rachel83az]

Looking at the lists of available courses, I don't even see how one could get a CIS degree without overlapping ANY CS courses. Vice versa is also a bit difficult.

[bjcheung77]

Nothing to worry about, list what you are going to take for the AOS for CIS and also list the ones for the BACS requirements... if you have 24 credits difference, you'll be fine.

[rachel83az]

For CS, I've been planning to take these:
UL:
Systems Analysis & Design (SDC)
Database Management (SDC)
Management Information Systems (SDC)
Computer Architecture (SDC)
Linear Algebra/Network Technology

LL:
Programming in Python (SDC)
Security Basics (TEEX - CAP-295)
Non-optional courses for section 2 (such as calculus and discrete math).

For a BSBA CIS, I've got:
UL:
Systems Analysis & Design
Database Management
Management Information Systems
??? - I thought there was one more CIS UL at SDC, one that didn't work for CS, but I'm not seeing it now.

LL:
Computer Security (TEEX - CIS-244)
Programming in Java (or R)
Non-optional BSBA courses (but these apparently aren't in the AOS?)

TESU says that the CIS degree has 18 AOS (CIS) credits while CS has 39. Which means that there are potentially 30 CS credits that don't overlap with the CIS credits. But there's still that last, pesky, missing UL CIS credit.

[bjcheung77]

The UL CIS course you're missing is the BUS 309 - Digital Marketing & Advertising course from Study.com
See below, I have highlighted the 24 course credits that do not duplicate, thus allowing you to reuse some with CIS...

BSBA CIS LL:
Computer Security (TEEX - CIS-244)
Programming in Java (or R)

BSBA CIS UL:
Systems Analysis & Design
Database Management
Management Information Systems
Digital Marketing & Advertising

BA Comp Science LL & UL
Introduction to Programming
Data Structures
Calculus I
Discrete Math
Operating Systems
Computer Architecture UL

BA Comp Science LL:
Programming in Python (SDC)
Security Basics (TEEX - CAP-295)

BA Comp Science UL:
Systems Analysis & Design (SDC)
Database Management (SDC)
Management Information Systems (SDC)
Linear Algebra/Network Technology

Basically, I would recommend taking an extra computer science or math course just in case the TEEX won't work with your BA Comp Sci.
That's why I would recommend you get an ASNSM Math to get an extra one/two math courses and also take a couple more comp sci too.
Heck, if you're going for a 16 credit course load vs paying the residency waiver fee, get an extra AAS ESST with this free as well...
Note: Your BA CS Capstone will also be another course that doesn't duplicate on the BSBA, as long as it's 24 different credits, you're golden.