Bachelors/Masters After Existing Masters

[termdec]

I completed my MBA a few years ago at a UK school.  It's regionally and internationally accredited.  However, I used the work-experience route (common in the UK) to enter the program, rather than a completed bachelor's.

I'm looking to do a hard pivot away from anything related to that degree, into mental health.  There are a variety of licensures that allow one to become a therapist in California, but they all have requirements for which schools one can attend and what programs are relevant. Degrees include MSW (for LCSW license), MFT, and LPCC, and I'm open to any of them.

It would be great if I could use my MBA to show that I'm capable of graduate level work, even though there's no overlap in the content. 

I've completed a fair amount of specialty education in my mental health niche, and can legally work as a counselor, but only within my specialty.  Unfortunately this credit is unlikely to transfer.  

Realistically, I may have to knock out a relevant bachelors, but not necessarily.

Has anyone been down this path, either going Masters > Bachelors, Masters > Masters, or fast-tracking an accredited mental health degree in California?

[swlearner71]

You’ll probably want to get your degree evaluated through WES or whatever evaluation service your university of choice requires. Check with each school first so you order the correct report type.

Reach out directly to the programs you’re interested in and ask if they would consider your MBA for admission. Some may consider it, some won’t. It depends on the institution, how strictly they interpret requirements, and how flexible their admissions process is. It’s worth testing before assuming you need to start over.

If that doesn’t work, there are accelerated bachelor’s options that can be finished quickly, especially if you transfer prior coursework or alternative credits. UMPI and WGU both offer psychology degrees. It’s not crazy for motivated students to complete these in months if they transfer credits from places like Sophia. WGU runs about 4k per term, and UMPI can sometimes be done for around 1800 depending on pace. UMPI also issues a GPA, which can help in admissions, though your previous experience will likely be more important.

If you go the MSW route, Arkansas State has one of the more affordable online MSWs at around 22k and roughly two years in length. They do require specific prerequisites, so you would want to plan your bachelor’s accordingly if you go that route.

No matter which path you choose, LPC, LCSW, or LMFT, it is a long process. You will complete internships during the program, which usually means adjusting your work schedule, followed by thousands of supervised clinical hours after graduation before full licensure.

The smart move is to test the direct master’s route first. If that misses, a fast bachelor’s is the next move into most programs.

Wishing you well.

[Jonathan Whatley]

Even if a grad school in a mental health license field accepts you without any bachelor’s,

• could it cost you admission to the best grad school you could have gotten into with a bachelor’s?
  
• could it shut you out or raise difficulties being accepted by a clinical placement site during your training?
  
• could it shut you out or raise difficulties with a future license whose requirements assume a bachelor’s degree, including a license in a state you might move to, or provide telehealth care to clients in, or need to license in to teach online for a university based there?
  
• could it cost you a future job, supervision, or admission to a doctorate? Even if your ultimate goal is private practice, you’ll need to work under supervision for about 2 to 3 years full-time after your master’s before your full independent practice license.
  

Conversely, it would be so easy to get a bachelor’s. swlearner71 rightly notes the UMPI and WGU bachelor’s in psychology which should be high on your list. Also note the WGU BS in Health and Human Services and the TESU BA in Psychology.

Under TESU’s Award of Degrees Policy, if you present a foreign credential evaluation acceptable to TESU that evaluates your MBA as equivalent to an American master’s degree, you only need to take major and gen ed courses. No free electives required to reach 120 semester hours. And if instead the evaluation you give TESU evaluates your MBA as equivalent to an American bachelor’s degree — this can happen — that’s ironically even better news for you: you’d only need to take the major courses. TESU would treat it like a second American bachelor’s degree, and TESU waives gen eds for second bachelor’s.

[swlearner71]

Even if a grad school in a mental health license field accepts you without any bachelor’s,

• could it cost you admission to the best grad school you could have gotten into with a bachelor’s?
  
• could it shut you out or raise difficulties being accepted by a clinical placement site during your training?
  
• could it shut you out or raise difficulties with a future license whose requirements assume a bachelor’s degree, including a license in a state you might move to, or provide telehealth care to clients in, or need to license in to teach online for a university based there?
  
• could it cost you a future job, supervision, or admission to a doctorate? Even if your ultimate goal is private practice, you’ll need to work under supervision for about 2 to 3 years full-time after your master’s before your full independent practice license.
  

Conversely, it would be so easy to get a bachelor’s. swlearner71 rightly notes the UMPI and WGU bachelor’s in psychology which should be high on your list. Also note the WGU BS in Health and Human Services and the TESU BA in Psychology.

Under TESU’s Award of Degrees Policy, if you present a foreign credential evaluation acceptable to TESU that evaluates your MBA as equivalent to an American master’s degree, you only need to take major and gen ed courses. No free electives required to reach 120 semester hours. And if instead the evaluation you give TESU evaluates your MBA as equivalent to an American bachelor’s degree — this can happen — that’s ironically even better news for you: you’d only need to take the major courses. TESU would treat it like a second American bachelor’s degree, and TESU waives gen eds for second bachelor’s.

Jonathan brings up some excellent points. In my state, a bachelor’s degree isn’t formally required for LMSW or LCSW licensure. At least on paper, a master’s or doctoral degree is sufficient. However, licensing boards can be strict about following the rules and regulations to a T, or sometimes developing their own arbitrary caveats. It’s not impossible that your specific circumstances could raise questions at some point in your path. I’ve also heard that the California Board of Social Work is stricter than most other states.

That said, earning a bachelor’s does seem the more advisable route. If completing it would take 3 or 4 years, it might be better to rely on the MBA you already have rather than investing that extra time. But with the growth of speedy online programs today, the juice can be worth the squeeze. For example at a school like UMPI, motivated students can earn a degree within months with small costs, comparatively speaking. This short detour would be providing peace of mind against the potential issues Mr. Whatley rightly highlighted. A small investment of time now can save a lot of potential stress in the future.

[Stonybeach]

Consider a Doctorate in Behavior Analysis.
https://www.capella.edu/online-psycholog...sychology/
Admissions: "A master’s degree from an institution accredited by an agency recognized by the U.S. Department of Education, or from an internationally recognized institution"
https://asuonline.asu.edu/online-degree-...-clinical/
"Students with a master’s degree in counseling, family therapy, nursing, occupational health and social work are encouraged to apply, though other fields of study are also considered."

Although California may be an issue. https://bbs.ca.gov/licensees/
The Board of Behavioral Sciences (Board) licenses four types of mental health
professionals:
• Licensed Marriage and Family Therapists (LMFTs)
• Licensed Educational Psychologists (LEPs)
• Licensed Clinical Social Workers (LCSWs)
• Licensed Professional Clinical Counselors (LPCCs)

States that license or "Register"
https://www.bacb.com/u-s-licensure-of-be...-analysts/

[termdec]

Thanks all, I have a lot to consider.

- I'm not particularly concerned about the quality of the school, rather the fastest/affordable path to licensure
- While I'll need to accrue hours in an internship, I'm an active practitioner in the field, just niche specific. This will allow me to effectively count my normal working hours.
- I've had my prior courses run through NACES, which does make it easier to submit the transcripts to schools for equivalency.
- I'll look into what the various credentialing boards require, as their expectations may be different from those of the schools.
- If I can knock out a quick bachelors, that may be the safest way to go, but it seems like the "big 3" are not approved by the CSWE, if not the other credentialing organizations.
- I have zero interest in working as part of a group practice, or for a larger organization. I'm only interested in expanding the scope of my private practice.

[bjcheung77]

Great intro post with some basic information, it's a good start to get the ball rolling, but you're missing all the requested details asked for in the addendum and template here: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...Area-works

With even the basics such as your age, country, saved up cashflow, etc, would give us a much better, bigger, and clearer picture of what the next steps are. There are options of getting that final degree end goal, it really depends on the pathway you're looking at.

[Jonathan Whatley]

- If I can knock out a quick bachelors, that may be the safest way to go, but it seems like the "big 3" are not approved by the CSWE, if not the other credentialing organizations.

The CSWE only accredits professional degrees in social work, which your pre-MSW bachelor’s in psychology or similar wouldn’t be. I’ve heard of many graduates of Big 3 bachelor’s going on to CSWE master’s in social work with success. Charter Oak recently introduced a BSW which holds Candidacy with CSWE. If it’s an accredited bachelor’s, it shouldn’t have any problems with the CSWE or a state board. If there’s no bachelor’s where, in particular, a state board expects a bachelor’s, there might be an issue.

[termdec]

Great intro post with some basic information, it's a good start to get the ball rolling, but you're missing all the requested details asked for in the addendum and template here: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...Area-works

With even the basics such as your age, country, saved up cashflow, etc, would give us a much better, bigger, and clearer picture of what the next steps are.  There are options of getting that final degree end goal, it really depends on the pathway you're looking at.

Thanks for the heads up.  With the nature of my clinical work, I lean towards a level of semi-anonymity.  It's not a big deal if existing clients connect the dots, but I would prefer to be more than a casual Google search away from drawing attention here.

Your Location: California, USA
Your Age: 40s
What kind of degree do you want?: Anything masters or doctorate level that allows for full clinical practice in my state. MSW, MFT, MSC, PsyD, etc. 
Current Regional Accredited Credits: 60 masters credit hours in an unrelated field
Current ACE, CLEP, or NCCRS Credits: None
Any certifications or military experience?: Certified as a mental health provider within my niche, which required masters level courses but not a masters degree. Courses are recognized by the certifying body as part of the program, but are unlikely to transfer.
Budget: Unspecified but very budget-conscious
Commitments: Work, Parenthood.  Work hours overlap with future internship hours.
Dedicated time to study: 20hrs/week
Timeline: Unlimited
Tuition assistance/reimbursement: None obtained

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- If I can knock out a quick bachelors, that may be the safest way to go, but it seems like the "big 3" are not approved by the CSWE, if not the other credentialing organizations.

The CSWE only accredits professional degrees in social work, which your pre-MSW bachelor’s in psychology or similar wouldn’t be. I’ve heard of many graduates of Big 3 bachelor’s going on to CSWE master’s in social work with success. Charter Oak recently introduced a BSW which holds Candidacy with CSWE. If it’s an accredited bachelor’s, it shouldn’t have any problems with the CSWE or a state board. If there’s no bachelor’s where, in particular, a state board expects a bachelor’s, there might be an issue.

Good to know, thank you.  I got confused as it seems like the CSWE does accredit certain BSW schools, but those aren't prerequisites for obtaining a CSWE MSW.  If it's possible to go from a big-3 bachelors in psych to an accelerated 18-month MSW, that would be a huge cost/time improvement over trying to get into a generalist MSW.

[bjcheung77]

Hmm, cheapest, easiest, fastest option might be to do the UMPI Bachelors (add the AALS freebie without doing anything) and then pivot to this if you're looking at one of your options, such as MFT, you should check out their Masters offerings and the Doctorate as well: https://kairos.edu/academics/programs/ma...y-therapy/

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OK, scratch that, California is one of 8 states that do not take the MFT, and one of 5 states that do not take the MACO. If that's the case, you may want to work backwards and see what the requirements of any of the degrees you want, and the institution that would allow certification or licensure, and what their prerequisites are. Then get the Bachelors of your choice, like the UMPI BA Psych, and ladder towards the degree and institution of choice.