COSC BALS History

[person8612]

My suggestion is to finish all the Sophia.org and TEEX courses you haven't taken yet and that doesn't duplicate your current credits - all of the Sophia.org except for the three foundations and then work on some Upper Level through Study.com - this basically should get you your general education/electives/AOS completed.  You can then work on your requirements from DSST to finish off the degree.  

Are you a civilian or a service member? I would save applying to COSC after you have all the TEEX/Sophia/Study.com completed as you don't want to pay for enrolment/semester fees for no reason... If you are wanting to do a double degree, then sign up for ENEB double MBA/Masters after you have completed all your requirements for the first degree (except capstone/cornerstone).

Sounds good, I'll get started on the Sophia courses tonight - although, from what you're saying, the TEEX are accepted by COSC, right? So you're saying they fall in the RA category and not the ACE category?

To clarify, I am a civilian.

I'm still not sure exactly what you're referring to with the ENEB stuff. Could you point me to the specific course(?) at ENEB I'd need to take?

Again, thanks all, it's greatly appreciated!

[dfrecore]

I'm not 100% sure COSC considers the Vietnam courses non-western history, since they're from the American perspective. So you'd need to find another UL non-western history course (in addition to the History of the Soviet Union), and it would have to be UL. As was said, your best bet is BYU-IS which is $636 - and there are several options, including Modern Japan, Tsarist Russia and Soviet Union & Post Soviet Union. But, you'd want to check to make sure that one was not a duplicate of the DSST exam.

Regarding TEEX, I don't think COSC takes those any longer, which is why those were mentioned. Your cheapest option is going to be Sophia I think.
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Now, if you want to look at another option, you might consider EC. They also require more UL, and specific courses that can't be found: BUT they also have a great deal where if you take 2 courses with them, in addition to your Cornerstone, Capstone & Info Lit requirement, it's only an additional $550 total to do so (tuition & fees are $5300 for 7cr there, but only $5850 for 13cr there). So you basically get to take your 2 necessary UL courses through them for less than it would cost for 1 course at BYU-IS. Just a thought, it's a bit more than COSC, but I think you get more bang for your buck this way - and possibly qualify for the Pell (although I know zero about Pell).

[person8612]

I'm not 100% sure COSC considers the Vietnam courses non-western history, since they're from the American perspective.

What makes me think that it is considered non-western history is that on COSC's official exam master list it lists the Vietnam War DSST under the category of "Non-U.S. History/Culture". As you said, if it was from an American perspective, I would understand it being classified as American history, but according to them, it isn't! And if it isn't American history, I don't think it would make much sense to consider it western history...

I've tried to find a definitive answer on this before (it came up in my thread last year), but there doesn't seem to be one out there. Once Monday rolls around, I think I'll try and find the relevant COSC staff to clarify this. Here's hoping!

Now, if you want to look at another option, you might consider EC. They also require more UL, and specific courses that can't be found: BUT they also have a great deal where if you take 2 courses with them, in addition to your Cornerstone, Capstone & Info Lit requirement, it's only an additional $550 total to do so (tuition & fees are $5300 for 7cr there, but only $5850 for 13cr there). So you basically get to take your 2 necessary UL courses through them for less than it would cost for 1 course at BYU-IS. Just a thought, it's a bit more than COSC, but I think you get more bang for your buck this way - and possibly qualify for the Pell (although I know zero about Pell).

I did some back of the envelope math with EC and quickly determined that they would be more expensive, but with this new information I'll have to look into it more deeply. Thanks.

[bjcheung77]

Actually, yeah, I would also recommend re-evaluating TESU if you're taking a look at Excelsior and also qualify for Pell Grant.
Here's a link I have to my previous Pell Grant post... https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...ng-Courses
If you do qualify to take Pell Grant, do so in three terms and two courses each term to take the max amount reducing the need for waiver fee!

[person8612]

Alright, well, this is a significant development. Apparently TESU has updated their SAP policy in the past year, as it now plainly states "Only grades earned at the University will be considered in the calculation of the official Thomas Edison State University GPA. Transfer grades will not be used in calculating the official TESU GPA." I'm virtually certain that when I checked last year they did consider transfer grades, so this is great news for me, as it means I qualify for the Pell Grant! And given my financial standing, I'm fairly certain 100% of my tuition costs would be covered (meaning if I take bjcheung77's three-term advice, I won't even have to pay the waiver). I need to head on to bed before revising my TESU plan to accommodate for this, but it's looking like after fees are accounted for, I may be able to get in under the $2000 mark! See you fine folks tomorrow.

[person8612]

Ok, after spending many hours going down many rabbit trails, I've determined that, assuming my plan is accurate, the best path for me, both in monetary and effort terms, would be a double degree (not to be confused with double concentration or double major) from Charter Oak with the degrees being a Bachelors of Arts in General Studies (History Concentration) and Bachelors of Science in Business Administration (General Business Concentration).



The total cost should be around $6500, of which Pell Grant should cover about $4000, leaving me on the hook for $2500 for both degrees.

So, unless anyone has any critiques of this plan, I'm going to go forward with it. Again, thanks all for your help!

[dfrecore]

Alright, well, this is a significant development. Apparently TESU has updated their SAP policy in the past year, as it now plainly states "Only grades earned at the University will be considered in the calculation of the official Thomas Edison State University GPA. Transfer grades will not be used in calculating the official TESU GPA." I'm virtually certain that when I checked last year they did consider transfer grades, so this is great news for me, as it means I qualify for the Pell Grant! And given my financial standing, I'm fairly certain 100% of my tuition costs would be covered (meaning if I take bjcheung77's three-term advice, I won't even have to pay the waiver). I need to head on to bed before revising my TESU plan to accommodate for this, but it's looking like after fees are accounted for, I may be able to get in under the $2000 mark! See you fine folks tomorrow.

This has always been the case - and it's the case at most colleges.  You earn a GPA at a school, and it doesn't transfer.  The school may look at it to make sure that you qualify to go there (TESU does that, you need a 2.0 to get in), or you need a certain grade to transfer a course in (like, at TESU, you need a C or greater in English Comp to transfer it in), but grades don't generally transfer between schools.  Your GPA stays at the school you earned it at.

[bjcheung77]

I'm being enlightened by lurkers and newbies alike, this is amazing, awesome you've done a quick analysis of COSC's BSGS History and the BSBA combo... there are a few things I want to inform you though!  Please see the following and decide if you want to continue with COSC or go with TESU.  Here's the list:

1) COSC, you will be getting an BSBA general management and BSGS with a concentration in History - TESU, you can get the BSBA ACBSP + BA History.
2) Just like TESU, COSC requires you to take at least 6 credits/term, meaning if you take two terms, you need 4 courses - your spreadsheet shows 3.

3) Your costs should actually be significantly cheaper at COSC as the CLEP costs are FREE with ModernStates, but DSST fees remain - I suggest not to use either as COVID19 is still striking areas very hard... be frugal yes, but I rather have comfort/luxury to do things such as proctoring at home instead of in a test center!

4) For TESU, unlike COSC where you'll need 150 credits for both, you can get an ACBSP accredited BSBA GM and a FULL BA History with 144 credits instead.
5) I agree with most of your course providers and suggest you continue to use Sophia.org/Saylor/Study.com for LL and UL courses that go into both degrees.

6) Not sure how you got the 3/4 time calculation for the Pell Grant, but I think you should be getting more if you're doing 3 terms max.  You can re-calculate if it would be better to do 2 or 3 terms at both schools and see if you would prefer a FULL BA History and an ACBSP accredited BSBA for slightly more out of pocket... send me a screenshot of your excel calculation for both.  I would pay more for a FULL BA History & an BSBA with better recognition, it'll be the cheapest out there...

[person8612]

2) Just like TESU, COSC requires you to take at least 6 credits/term, meaning if you take two terms, you need 4 courses - your spreadsheet shows 3.

I was planning on getting all three done in one semester - COSC would classify 9 credits as three-quarter time. Although, one option would be to take the Human Resources or Organizational Management concentration and take the course required for either for a total of 12 credits, either in one semester at full-time or two semesters at half-time.

3) Your costs should actually be significantly cheaper at COSC as the CLEP costs are FREE with ModernStates, but DSST fees remain - I suggest not to use either as COVID19 is still striking areas very hard... be frugal yes, but I rather have comfort/luxury to do things such as proctoring at home instead of in a test center!

Cost is the primary factor for choosing Charter Oak. I read your TESU Pell Grant post, and unfortunately its largely contingent on applying the Study.com discount, which no longer appears to exist (ditto with the lesser 5% OnlineDegree discount). As you noted, tuition with Pell and as an out-of-state student would run $3000, which is a whole heap more than the $0 I could get it at Charter Oak. Although, the cost of paying for 16 fewer credits (6 fewer credits overall + 10 TEEX credits) does need to be considered.

6) Not sure how you got the 3/4 time calculation for the Pell Grant, but I think you should be getting more if you're doing 3 terms max.  You can re-calculate if it would be better to do 2 or 3 terms at both schools and see if you would prefer a FULL BA History and an ACBSP accredited BSBA for slightly more out of pocket... send me a screenshot of your excel calculation for both.  I would pay more for a FULL BA History & an BSBA with better recognition, it'll be the cheapest out there...

As noted above, it's basically the $3000 in tuition expenses that's the driving factor here, but today I realized that actually, my employer should provide $1500 in tuition assistance (per calendar year). So basically my question at the moment is, "is a History BA and ACBSP BSBA $1500 better than a General Studies BA and accredited BSBA?" Luckily it'll take some time to complete the base coursework I'd need for either school, but it is something to consider.

One snag I want to clarify first though is how multiple majors at COSC works. At COSC, they are pretty clear: 150 credits and the requisite coursework in BA and BS will get you two entirely separate degrees. TESU is much vaguer about how they do things. From what I've read, you can't get both a BA and BS at the same time; both majors have to be one or the other. Can anyone clarify what changes would have to be made compared to a standard single bachelors?

[bjcheung77]

Ah yes, hmm, I'm not sure if you read my beginners guide, the last few posts in regards to getting two degrees.  Essentially, the first degree and the second degree can be completed with roughly 120 credits just like a double major (even though one is a BA and the other is a BSBA), unlike COSC, where you're required to have 150 total because the they need you to complete 30 credits for the second degree in addition to what is required for the first degree of 120 credits.

So, anyways, let's use jsh1138 and mysonx3 as examples, both of them have completed two BA's with roughly 120 credits or a tad over.  jsh1138 completed a BA English & History and mysonx3 completed a BA History & Psychology.  They can list this as two degrees if they were awarded two degrees.  Or if they have completed one degree and have a double major, it'll be the exact same amount of credits, the process to apply for them is different...

For TESU, if you decide to do a BSBA General Management & BA History, you just need 24 credits that aren't overlapping.  Here's a thread where Merlin referenced the 2020-2021 catalog, and in this thread, I explained, as well, you just need 24 credits difference at minimum.  Most double degree options, if not all, will usually have more than that 24, I would say at least 27 up to 33... Here's the thread: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-BA-CS-BSBA-CIS

Now to explain this further so you can understand it better, if you look at the BSBA it has the following credits: 9 Knowledge of Human Cultures, 17-20 Gen Eds, 6 Free electives, let's just say it's 9+18+6=33.  Now, if you look at the BA History (or most of the BA), they require 33 credits in the Area of Study, hence you can dump your History Major into those areas, and now you have two degrees with the exact same credits.
This should save you energy/money/time over COSC, especially if you use the Pell Grant in 3 terms, you can use the extra time towards getting the ENEB/Universidad Isabel I MBA & Masters instead of completing unnecessary credits towards a second degree at COSC... my recommendation and verdict, for two degrees in the same or different school (BA+BA or BA+BSBA), TESU wins.

If you need other examples who have done two associates/two bachelors at TESU, there are a few showing on the degreeforum wiki, the re-using the credits for the second associates or bachelors was a reason for them to continue with a second degree vs going for the masters as there "wasn't" too much extra work to get all the requirements.  For many other schools, their requirements are not as flexible, hence it will take a longer time to get all the secondary requirements complete and a Masters would be a feasible recommendation instead.

Sadly for me, the BA Biology requires 60 in the Area of Study, hence I am on the fence to get a BA Comp Sci/Math instead now... Hmm, back to the drawing board for me, LOL.  Yeah, Biology is taking me a bit longer than I wanted, Math would be the better option <sadly>.  That light bulb just hit me, time to switch my plan again, back to BA Comp Sci & Math double major...

TESU Blog Link: https://blog.tesu.edu/the-secret-to-earn...ond-degree
TESU Award Link: https://www.tesu.edu/academics/catalog/award-of-degrees