Don't borrow money for school...it can hurt you and those close to you...

[davewill]

... If you do decide that is the path you want, I think it's critical to study for and pass the bar. No matter how many attempts it takes. It is not uncommon to fail the bar twice or even more times. Determination is required here. The CA bar is hard, you're not a dummy if you fail twice. ...

Perhaps he wasn't even close to passing.

[rebel100]

Then there is this girl..."You can't put a price tag on a valuable experience"...Why I Don't Regret Choosing My Private College Education | The Odyssey

A gem from the essay:
"I wrestled between the ideas of graduating from the public college debt free or graduating from the school I loved with an evident chunk of debt. The public college’s “debt free aspect” was the only pro, in my mind, to attending. I remember sorting through thoughts and coming to the realization that college was supposed to be a time to grow up and get away from home, not drive 15 minutes down the road to be at campus, seeing familiar high school faces daily. That environment was not what I wanted and not the place I needed to be in order to grow and network on my own. Needless to say, I chose the private college: Union University....Sure, I could have been set to graduate debt free from another school, but would I have been happy?… Not at all."

[dfrecore]

My first thought about the law guy - the problem with student loans for med/law school is that even if you can't pass the board/bar, you still have all that debt.

My second thought is that this guy is a doofus. He has made bad decision after bad decision, and thinks that suing the school is going to help his situation. Did he check to see what the rate is of students passing the bar from that school? That would be the first thing I looked at! I would also make passing the bar my first priority. I would put everything else on hold and do whatever it took to pass. Not passing the CA or TX bar the first time each is not unheard of, he would need to study more and put more work into passing one of them.

The fact that he can't find ANY job is indicative of his work ethic if nothing else. Who graduates from college and then can't find ANY job for NINE YEARS except minimum-wage jobs, and then can't even keep those? Nine years is a very long time to go without being able to find a decent job as a college grad and a law school grad. He has never made more than $25k in all of that time? You can make $25k working at Chik-fil-A or In-N-Out Burger, they both pay close to $12/hr. My 19-yo nephew was making more than $25k working part-time while he stayed here with us!!! He worked at the mall making $11/hr, plus worked a second job as a referee on the weekends (mornings), making $20/hr.

I live in San Diego, there are TONS of jobs here, good paying jobs, everywhere. Our economy is strong, and housing prices are on the rebound (meaning again, the economy is strong). It's easy to find a $40k/year job here, and that's pretty low, I have friends that make that working part-time. Seriously. Working for photographers, schools, etc.

There is a reason (or several or many reasons) that this guy can't get a job, and it's not because there aren't any. No possible way.

[dfrecore]

Then there is this girl..."You can't put a price tag on a valuable experience"...Why I Don't Regret Choosing My Private College Education | The Odyssey

A gem from the essay:
"I wrestled between the ideas of graduating from the public college debt free or graduating from the school I loved with an evident chunk of debt. The public college’s “debt free aspect” was the only pro, in my mind, to attending. I remember sorting through thoughts and coming to the realization that college was supposed to be a time to grow up and get away from home, not drive 15 minutes down the road to be at campus, seeing familiar high school faces daily. That environment was not what I wanted and not the place I needed to be in order to grow and network on my own. Needless to say, I chose the private college: Union University....Sure, I could have been set to graduate debt free from another school, but would I have been happy?… Not at all."

Doofus as well! Glad my kids aren't this dumb, and we will be talking about this more and more as they get towards college age. I've said "I'm not paying for your college experience, I'm paying for your education" enough times now that they probably hear it in their sleep.

She made it sound as if a local public school or expensive private school were the only options. How about an in-state public school further away from home? Most states have more than 1 public university you can attend.

And then how about working while you're in school? I always worked, one on-campus job during the day between/around classes, and then one off-campus job on evenings/weekends. Maybe 20-30 hours a week max. It was enough to pay my way through school and live in a crappy little apartment and drive my crappy car. A broke college student, but no loans, and enough money to pay my rent, buy some gas, and eat ramen noodles. I was perfectly happy.

[cookderosa]

CA has strange bar requirements (in comparison to the rest of the US). My general take on it is, it's easier to sit for the bar there, but much harder to pass. Most say the CA bar is the hardest to pass. I like this approach, especially for professions that serve others. I want my lawyer to be competent, i don't care much about which school he attended, but I DO care that he knows the law.

The bigger problem I see here, is the assumption that education is a guarantee of a job. I see it time and time again, and have even been guilty of it myself. The fact of the matter is, it's just not true. There seems to be a certain amount of entitlement that some students have after they obtain their degree that will likely lead to serious disappointment. There are many other factors that are required to get a job.

Some may call me insensitive, but I believe it's important to decide if you really want to be a lawyer before you rack up 170k in debt. If you do decide that is the path you want, I think it's critical to study for and pass the bar. No matter how many attempts it takes. It is not uncommon to fail the bar twice or even more times. Determination is required here. The CA bar is hard, you're not a dummy if you fail twice. Giving up on the goal just short of attainment after racking up 170k in debt on the other hand....

You're right. And frankly, I've been following edu trends for a little while now, maybe about 10 years, and for YEARS and YEARS and YEARS the topic has been beaten to death that law school grads (who passed their bar) can't find work and are working as paralegals. In fact, my poor memory recalls one of our members here who a paralegal (is that right? who remembers her?) and her office had lawyers working in the office for pennies just to get a job. This isn't new- I mean it's been on the radar at least as long as before this kid started law school. So really, if anyone does "research" they would know this, but I think it's more a case of people don't believe it. The college propaganda is so exceptionally strong, and it's a pretty consistent song, that it is nearly impossible to dissuade people from doing it anyway.

[dfrecore]

One of the things I've noticed from friends with kids who are Juniors and Seniors in high school is the whole "where are you going to college, which college have you chosen?" Parents are teaching their kids that this is THE most important thing in the world. It's ridiculous. It's like telling your kids that the 4 years they spend in high school are the MOST IMPORTANT ones of their lives. They're NOT!!!

I have been talking to my kids about what they want to be when they grow up. You may need a college degree to do that job, in which case we'll decide where to go for that. But really, WHICH college they go to is so unimportant. The local CC & 4-yr college down the road is as good as any. There will be so many more years AFTER college that will outweigh anything you do IN college.

From the article where the girl said she was glad she'd chosen the private college rather than the public one: "The truth is that college is four years of your life, which is much too long of a time to spend unhappy." Really, for those of us who are adults and have some life experience behind us, it's completely the opposite; four years is such a SHORT amount of time in the big scheme of things. We are supposed to help our kids figure out how this all fits into the rest of their lives, not make it seem as if it IS their lives.

Another great quote: "The truth is that college debt is temporary." She may spend the next 20 years paying off her debt. She thinks that 4 years is too long to spend unhappy at college, and yet 20 years of paying off debt is "temporary." I'm assuming Her parents didn't spend a lot of time discussing this with her, and pointing out that these 2 things directly contradicted each other.

Actually, with how she speaks in the article, I don't think her parents spent much time discussing anything important with her at all. Leaving choices like this completely up to a 17-year old high school senior is quite possibly the stupidest thing a parent can do. Kids need more guidance than this, and someone to speak a little sense into their lives. But many parents are so enamored of the thought of their kid going to some great college that they completely leave reason out of the equation. Someday, I'm hoping common sense will be back "in" and parent will stop their kids from going $50k into debt because a college campus is pretty!

[sanantone]

You're right. And frankly, I've been following edu trends for a little while now, maybe about 10 years, and for YEARS and YEARS and YEARS the topic has been beaten to death that law school grads (who passed their bar) can't find work and are working as paralegals. In fact, my poor memory recalls one of our members here who a paralegal (is that right? who remembers her?) and her office had lawyers working in the office for pennies just to get a job. This isn't new- I mean it's been on the radar at least as long as before this kid started law school. So really, if anyone does "research" they would know this, but I think it's more a case of people don't believe it. The college propaganda is so exceptionally strong, and it's a pretty consistent song, that it is nearly impossible to dissuade people from doing it anyway.

I've never worked in a law office, and I know many others who have never worked in a law office who know about the legal job market. Many people seem to know that there is an oversupply of lawyers, and only the ones who graduate from top schools have somewhat of an easy time finding a job. He researched U.S. News and chose to spend $46k per year at a school that is RNP (rank not published, bottom quartile).

Then there is this girl..."You can't put a price tag on a valuable experience"...Why I Don't Regret Choosing My Private College Education | The Odyssey

A gem from the essay:
"I wrestled between the ideas of graduating from the public college debt free or graduating from the school I loved with an evident chunk of debt. The public college’s “debt free aspect” was the only pro, in my mind, to attending. I remember sorting through thoughts and coming to the realization that college was supposed to be a time to grow up and get away from home, not drive 15 minutes down the road to be at campus, seeing familiar high school faces daily. That environment was not what I wanted and not the place I needed to be in order to grow and network on my own. Needless to say, I chose the private college: Union University....Sure, I could have been set to graduate debt free from another school, but would I have been happy?… Not at all."

The quality of life during the decades after college doesn't matter?

[dfrecore]

You're right. And frankly, I've been following edu trends for a little while now, maybe about 10 years, and for YEARS and YEARS and YEARS the topic has been beaten to death that law school grads (who passed their bar) can't find work and are working as paralegals. In fact, my poor memory recalls one of our members here who a paralegal (is that right? who remembers her?) and her office had lawyers working in the office for pennies just to get a job. This isn't new- I mean it's been on the radar at least as long as before this kid started law school. So really, if anyone does "research" they would know this, but I think it's more a case of people don't believe it. The college propaganda is so exceptionally strong, and it's a pretty consistent song, that it is nearly impossible to dissuade people from doing it anyway.

You're right, the oversupply of lawyers has popped up on the news regularly for many years.

[dfrecore]

He researched U.S. News and chose to spend $46k per year at a school that is RNP (rank not published, bottom quartile.

I like that he researched where he should go based on a paid advertisement (U.S. News), but didn't do any research on the percentage of students who pass the bar (on the first try or subsequent tries).

[videogamesrock]

I like that he researched where he should go based on a paid advertisement (U.S. News), but didn't do any research on the percentage of students who pass the bar (on the first try or subsequent tries).

The funny thing is that he will lose in court and be even more in debt with court and attorney fees.