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New Cars Too Pricey for Many
#11
(09-24-2018, 11:56 AM)Life Long Learning Wrote: The most reliable car makers make diesel not junk gas engines.

What does that have to say about electric vehicles? Smile

We currently drive a Lexus hybrid as our main family vehicle, and while I normally focus on the high-end performance car market for my personal vehicle, I just sold my last car and instead of a sports car I'm leaning towards of getting an electric or PHEV vehicle this time around. I was originally thinking Tesla, but I'm not sure I'm ready for 100% electric yet. I'm currently considering a PHEV like the Chevy Volt. Not planning to make a decision for a few months yet though.

Price wise, none of these options are exactly inexpensive though. Even with the federal rebate for the electrics and PHEV's, it's hard to find a decent car for under $30K.

Also, like dfrecore, leather is a requirement for us as well, for many of the same reasons.
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#12
(09-24-2018, 11:09 AM)bjcheung77 Wrote: Cars! Woo... that's the topic of the day... I upgraded my older Corolla a few years ago to another Corolla (2014).  
They came out with the newer body style and I liked it, further to that, my older model was stolen...
I think people should stick to something they can afford and is in their price range/brand they want.
I would love the new 2018 Toyota Scion 86, but it's not practical enough for the family.

In regards to Kia/Hyundai, they're getting up the charts as their models look pretty good.
I wonder why Hyundai started selling their ownership/shares, they had 51% of Kia and now about 33% ownership.
Hyundai has that luxury line Genesis, the Kia counterpart I don't think has a luxury line.
Anyways, good cars overall and getting better...


Kia doesn't have a separate luxury line, but they have a luxury model - the K900. A lot of people are excited about the new Stinger. It's a semi-premium sports sedan. 

I looked into the Toyota 86, but decided that the Subaru BRZ is better. They're basically the same car, but the BRZ looks a little better, in my opinion. I think it also has more standard features at the lower trims. They're not suitable at all for transporting more than two people unless you have very small children and you expect them to never grow. The backseats are almost non-existent.  

(09-24-2018, 11:56 AM)Life Long Learning Wrote:
(09-24-2018, 09:49 AM)sanantone Wrote: I've never had a diesel vehicle. The most reliable car makers don't have many, if any, diesel models in their lineup.

I've never had any issues with my engines. Usually, it's the technology that starts falling apart and is expensive to fix. I'm afraid of getting the new vehicles, even the ones two years old, because they have so many electronics and computer-controlled stuff.

Gas engines do not last long compared to diesel.  I expect to own my vehicles for 20-years.  My government agency purchased 50 RV type FEMA emergency vehicles.  They went cheap and the gas engines are so bad they are replacing the whole fleet with guess what?   Small diesel engines are everywhere in Europe.  The US buys $13,000 diesel Ford Ranger trucks for the Afghan and Iraq police.  They are excellent and I used one for six months deployed.  My 2005 diesel Ram truck (bigger than I need) I can still sell for a lot of money.  Resell is excellent.  Mercedes Benz makes great diesel cars, but will not import to the USA anymore.  The most reliable car makers make diesel not junk gas engines.

Hondas and Toyotas from the 90s easily lasted 20 years. I had Buicks that lasted a long time. It's just that most American car models and many European models don't last long. Mercedes has always had reliability issues. They're so bad that they shared a platform with the normally reliable Infiniti, and that SUV has low reliability ratings. I don't know about the trucks, but I would never buy a Dodge, Jeep, or Chrysler product. I know Ram has spun off, but Chrysler/Dodge vehicles have had such a long history of being horrible, I have a bias against them. 

TDCJ still has Ford Crown Victoria police interceptors with gas engines in its fleet. They're ugly, but they run fine. Police departments hated when Ford discontinued them. They now have issues with the new Fords, but the issues are electrical. The major components of modern vehicles are more reliable than they ever have been. The average modern vehicles has far fewer problems than vehicles from decades ago. So, everything is all relative. Toyota and Lexus have consistently made the most reliable cars, and they have gas engines. Can't argue with stats. JD Power and Consumer Reports collect data from thousands of people.

(09-24-2018, 12:20 PM)Merlin Wrote:
(09-24-2018, 11:56 AM)Life Long Learning Wrote: The most reliable car makers make diesel not junk gas engines.

What does that have to say about electric vehicles? Smile

We currently drive a Lexus hybrid as our main family vehicle, and while I normally focus on the high-end performance car market for my personal vehicle, I just sold my last car and instead of a sports car I'm leaning towards of getting an electric or PHEV vehicle this time around. I was originally thinking Tesla, but I'm not sure I'm ready for 100% electric yet. I'm currently considering a PHEV like the Chevy Volt. Not planning to make a decision for a few months yet though.

Price wise, none of these options are exactly inexpensive though. Even with the federal rebate for the electrics and PHEV's, it's hard to find a decent car for under $30K.

Also, like dfrecore, leather is a requirement for us as well, for many of the same reasons.

The Prius has been amazingly reliable. Tesla has a lot of kinks to work out. They're below average in reliability. If I'm going to spend more than $40k or $50k on a vehicle, it better be one of the most reliable around. Mercedes Benz, Jaguar, and Land Rover are notorious for being in and out of the shop.

I currently have leather, and it's great for my dog. I bought a seat cover, but it moves around. I contemplated getting cloth to save money, but then I remembered that my dog has gotten blood and mud on my seats.
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#13
(09-24-2018, 12:20 PM)Merlin Wrote:
(09-24-2018, 11:56 AM)Life Long Learning Wrote: The most reliable car makers make diesel not junk gas engines.

What does that have to say about electric vehicles? Smile

We currently drive a Lexus hybrid as our main family vehicle, and while I normally focus on the high-end performance car market for my personal vehicle, I just sold my last car and instead of a sports car I'm leaning towards of getting an electric or PHEV vehicle this time around. I was originally thinking Tesla, but I'm not sure I'm ready for 100% electric yet. I'm currently considering a PHEV like the Chevy Volt. Not planning to make a decision for a few months yet though.

Price wise, none of these options are exactly inexpensive though. Even with the federal rebate for the electrics and PHEV's, it's hard to find a decent car for under $30K.

Also, like dfrecore, leather is a requirement for us as well, for many of the same reasons.

I really do not know anything about battery cars.  We will see if they will last 20-years?  How long will the batteries last?  Costs to replace?
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#14
A Tesla battery for a base model currently costs almost $7,000. An owner will spend several thousand more for installation. I'm sure the costs will go down with time, but Tesla wants to have a monopoly on Tesla repairs. You can't just take one of their cars to an auto repair shop, and they want to keep it that way.
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#15
(09-24-2018, 12:28 PM)sanantone Wrote:
(09-24-2018, 12:20 PM)Merlin Wrote:
(09-24-2018, 11:56 AM)Life Long Learning Wrote: The most reliable car makers make diesel not junk gas engines.

What does that have to say about electric vehicles? Smile

We currently drive a Lexus hybrid as our main family vehicle, and while I normally focus on the high-end performance car market for my personal vehicle, I just sold my last car and instead of a sports car I'm leaning towards of getting an electric or PHEV vehicle this time around. I was originally thinking Tesla, but I'm not sure I'm ready for 100% electric yet. I'm currently considering a PHEV like the Chevy Volt. Not planning to make a decision for a few months yet though.

Price wise, none of these options are exactly inexpensive though. Even with the federal rebate for the electrics and PHEV's, it's hard to find a decent car for under $30K.

Also, like dfrecore, leather is a requirement for us as well, for many of the same reasons.

The Prius has been amazingly reliable. Tesla has a lot of kinks to work out. They're below average in reliability. If I'm going to spend more than $40k or $50k on a vehicle, it better be one of the most reliable around. Mercedes Benz, Jaguar, and Land Rover are notorious for being in and out of the shop.

Having owned a few Jaguars, I can say that is true for the older vehicles, but after their latest change in management (like a decade ago), its like a brand new company. My last car was a Jaguar F-Type R AWD, which I only ever had in the shop for annual maintenance. It was extremely reliable... not to mention quick. Smile

I like the Prius but I'm not really interested in another hybrid. The Prime, their PHEV, isn't quite ready for prime time yet. Yes, it gets great gas mileage but has a terrible electric-only range since it is really just a hybrid with a bigger battery, unlike the Volt which is built as an all-electric vehicle with a gas-powered generator for extra range if needed (like the BMW i3 REx).

As for Tesla, I agree. They're nice and quick, but can be problematic, and its hard to get them serviced since they're a niche manufacturer. Though given I'm in the SF/Silicon Valley area, I'm local to their service center so that isn't as big of a deal. They're also quite expensive, so between the cost and the potential reliability issues, that is another reason I'm leaning towards the Volt, since even the high-end model can be had for just over $30K after rebates and discounts. Plus, the Volt has double the range of the Tesla if you include the generator (which gets ~45 mpg in hybrid mode). Plus with the gas generator, you can still drive it if you don't have time to plug it into a fast charger and go grab a meal (or a movie).
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#16
(09-24-2018, 12:53 PM)Merlin Wrote:
(09-24-2018, 12:28 PM)sanantone Wrote:
(09-24-2018, 12:20 PM)Merlin Wrote:
(09-24-2018, 11:56 AM)Life Long Learning Wrote: The most reliable car makers make diesel not junk gas engines.

What does that have to say about electric vehicles? Smile

We currently drive a Lexus hybrid as our main family vehicle, and while I normally focus on the high-end performance car market for my personal vehicle, I just sold my last car and instead of a sports car I'm leaning towards of getting an electric or PHEV vehicle this time around. I was originally thinking Tesla, but I'm not sure I'm ready for 100% electric yet. I'm currently considering a PHEV like the Chevy Volt. Not planning to make a decision for a few months yet though.

Price wise, none of these options are exactly inexpensive though. Even with the federal rebate for the electrics and PHEV's, it's hard to find a decent car for under $30K.

Also, like dfrecore, leather is a requirement for us as well, for many of the same reasons.

The Prius has been amazingly reliable. Tesla has a lot of kinks to work out. They're below average in reliability. If I'm going to spend more than $40k or $50k on a vehicle, it better be one of the most reliable around. Mercedes Benz, Jaguar, and Land Rover are notorious for being in and out of the shop.

Having owned a few Jaguars, I can say that is true for the older vehicles, but after their latest change in management (like a decade ago), its like a brand new company. My last car was a Jaguar F-Type R AWD, which I only ever had in the shop for annual maintenance. It was extremely reliable... not to mention quick. Smile

I like the Prius but I'm not really interested in another hybrid. The Prime, their PHEV, isn't quite ready for prime time yet. Yes, it gets great gas mileage but has a terrible electric-only range since it is really just a hybrid with a bigger battery, unlike the Volt which is built as an all-electric vehicle with a gas-powered generator for extra range if needed (like the BMW i3 REx).

As for Tesla, I agree. They're nice and quick, but can be problematic, and its hard to get them serviced since they're a niche manufacturer. Though given I'm in the SF/Silicon Valley area, I'm local to their service center so that isn't as big of a deal. They're also quite expensive, so between the cost and the potential reliability issues, that is another reason I'm leaning towards the Volt, since even the high-end model can be had for just over $30K after rebates and discounts. Plus, the Volt has double the range of the Tesla if you include the generator (which gets ~45 mpg in hybrid mode). Plus with the gas generator, you can still drive it if you don't have time to plug it into a fast charger and go grab a meal (or a movie).

There's also the Nissan Leaf. I don't know much about it.
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#17
(09-24-2018, 12:47 PM)Life Long Learning Wrote:
(09-24-2018, 12:20 PM)Merlin Wrote:
(09-24-2018, 11:56 AM)Life Long Learning Wrote: The most reliable car makers make diesel not junk gas engines.

What does that have to say about electric vehicles? Smile

We currently drive a Lexus hybrid as our main family vehicle, and while I normally focus on the high-end performance car market for my personal vehicle, I just sold my last car and instead of a sports car I'm leaning towards of getting an electric or PHEV vehicle this time around. I was originally thinking Tesla, but I'm not sure I'm ready for 100% electric yet. I'm currently considering a PHEV like the Chevy Volt. Not planning to make a decision for a few months yet though.

Price wise, none of these options are exactly inexpensive though. Even with the federal rebate for the electrics and PHEV's, it's hard to find a decent car for under $30K.

Also, like dfrecore, leather is a requirement for us as well, for many of the same reasons.

I really do not know anything about battery cars.  We will see if they will last 20-years?  How long will the batteries last?  Costs to replace?

Given we're expected to run out of gasoline within the next 50 years or so, it seems likely that we're going to end up with a lot more electric cars on the road over the next decade or two. Most batteries are warrantied for 8+ years, and during that time the battery prices continue to drop. The battery in my 4-year-old Lexus hybrid originally cost $4,000 when it was new, but runs about 20% of that to replace now. I still have 4 more years on the warranty though and by that time if I need to replace it, it'll probably be 10%. Labor is where they always get you though. That will probably be more expensive than the battery.

(09-24-2018, 12:57 PM)sanantone Wrote:
(09-24-2018, 12:53 PM)Merlin Wrote: I like the Prius but I'm not really interested in another hybrid. The Prime, their PHEV, isn't quite ready for prime time yet. Yes, it gets great gas mileage but has a terrible electric-only range since it is really just a hybrid with a bigger battery, unlike the Volt which is built as an all-electric vehicle with a gas-powered generator for extra range if needed (like the BMW i3 REx).

As for Tesla, I agree. They're nice and quick, but can be problematic, and its hard to get them serviced since they're a niche manufacturer. Though given I'm in the SF/Silicon Valley area, I'm local to their service center so that isn't as big of a deal. They're also quite expensive, so between the cost and the potential reliability issues, that is another reason I'm leaning towards the Volt, since even the high-end model can be had for just over $30K after rebates and discounts. Plus, the Volt has double the range of the Tesla if you include the generator (which gets ~45 mpg in hybrid mode). Plus with the gas generator, you can still drive it if you don't have time to plug it into a fast charger and go grab a meal (or a movie).

There's also the Nissan Leaf. I don't know much about it.

That's okay, I've done quite a bit of research into the electric and PHEV market.

The leaf is all electric like the Tesla, but with about 150-mile range. If I were interested in all-electric and didn't end go with Tesla, I'd probably end up with a Chevy Bolt before a Nissan Leaf. It's got about 100 miles more range, plus its quicker and has better tech.
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#18
We own our cars for many years as well. I think we had one Suburban that we put 300k miles on over 10 years. (of course we bought it used!) Right now we are trying to decide about another car. We don't do car payments, and haven't had one in a long while, but the thought of draining my savings is equally frustrating - not sure what we'll do either.
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#19
(09-24-2018, 12:53 PM)sanantone Wrote: A Tesla battery for a base model currently costs almost $7,000. An owner will spend several thousand more for installation. I'm sure the costs will go down with time, but Tesla wants to have a monopoly on Tesla repairs. You can't just take one of their cars to an auto repair shop, and they want to keep it that way.

I am not looking for a new vehicle but maybe a 100% battery one in 10 years?  

My wife was forced to turn in a 1-year-old VW TDI diesel getting 49-mpg. Confused   I have a friend who was getting 51-mpg on the same car.   Current battery cars getting only 50-mpg seems un-eventfull as I was already getting that and with a better engine.  Now I drive my 18-mpg diesel tuck more as that's the way the gov., wants it. Sad    I will look forward to a 100-mpg battery car in the future I hope as maybe a replacement?  That is unless China stops letting us polluting and destroying their country (making batteries)?
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#20
(09-24-2018, 05:46 PM)Life Long Learning Wrote:
(09-24-2018, 12:53 PM)sanantone Wrote: A Tesla battery for a base model currently costs almost $7,000. An owner will spend several thousand more for installation. I'm sure the costs will go down with time, but Tesla wants to have a monopoly on Tesla repairs. You can't just take one of their cars to an auto repair shop, and they want to keep it that way.

I am not looking for a new vehicle but maybe a 100% battery one in 10 years?  

My wife was forced to turn in a 1-year-old VW TDI diesel getting 49-mpg. Confused   I have a friend who was getting 51-mpg on the same car.   Current battery cars getting only 50-mpg seems un-eventfull as I was already getting that and with a better engine.  Now I drive my 18-mpg diesel tuck more as that's the way the gov., wants it. Sad    I will look forward to a 100-mpg battery car in the future I hope as maybe a replacement?  That is unless China stops letting us polluting and destroying their country (making batteries)?

Electric cars generally get a lot more than 51 mpg. For example, the Nissan Leaf gets like 112 MPGe (MPG equivalent). The Volt gets 106 MPGe when operating on electric power. Heck, even the Chrysler Pacifica PHEV minivan has an MPGe of 84.

As I mentioned before, battery prices drop very quickly, so while a battery may cost $7000 today, that same battery is probably going to run closer to $500-$1,000 in 10 years given what I've seen so far.
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