A CHef/Cooking Question...Cookderosa U out there?

[cookderosa]

*deleted* duplicate oops!

[cookderosa]

Ah Jennifer...YOUR THE BEST! Thanks so much for your excellent advice. It closely mirrors what I have been telling her

Im all for the CIA if thats where this leads, is there a big difference in the 3 campuses? I would think NY would be first choice but I'm just curious.

Absolutely 100% the Hyde Park campus is THE campus. Texas and California are satellites that have different priorities (continuing education, wine education, etc). If she goes, it'll be Hyde Park.

I understand it's a very different sort of education but do they still require math and English and humanities? in other words could a student transfer in with 60-90 credits and thereby shorten their stay at CIA or is it 4 full years of learning mother sauces and how to properly sear beef? Just totally lost on what their education entails.

Transfer stuff changes. When I attended, gen eds were not in the curriculum but they are now. CIA is now regionally accredited and does take transfer credit. It's best to look at their FAQ or transfer page for the most accurate info. I'll go out on a limb and say that gen eds and sanitation are the only things they'd transfer in. They are HIGHLY PARENTAL in their cook's training. It is specifically in the European method, and I'm 99.999999% sure they'll NEVER accept a transfer credit for cooking. That would be soooo contrary to their philosophy of training you their way. Additionally, unless your community college instructor is a Certified Master Chef, you don't want to hear what they have to say about sautéing. CIA curriculum is written by CMCs, there are very few CCs that have any CMCs on staff (because they all work for CIA)

Locally there are 2 Community Colleges that have programs. I though of having her take the two pre-reqs which I think are food safety and a course in cooking for large groups. once those are done she could sample the other offerings they have like baking/sauces/etc... One school that would seem likely to have a good program is Valencia Community College Culinary Management - Valencia Community College I would expect them to have a good program and they have hospitality management articulation agreements with Univ. of Central Florida (not that it matters about that really). Downside is that they don't seem to be affiliated with the ACF.


Run, don't walk. Run. ACF is the industry standard. Without it, it says that the program is either a) not up to snuff b) doesn't understand snuff c) had snuff but lost it. Run. On a side note, CIA has opted to never seek ACF accreditation, but that's an interesting political story for another day. lol

Other local school is about an hour away but doable right now also. It is on the ACF list and that's Hillsborough CC Hillsborough Community College They are a smaller college than VCC and that might be appealing.

I'll look at this for you.

I don't know if attending some classes or getting a degree from one of these schools would be a big positive or negative. Would CIA welcome a student that already had some training, maybe even an AS from a CC? Would graduation from such a program make CIA less of an atteactive alternative?

No, CIA wants her to have restaurant experience, not classroom training. If she can't get hired for pay, she should work for free. Country Clubs are generically the best suggestion. Find one that has the chef's bio in their website. You'll want her under a chef with a degree from CIA or J&W

the other schools are Vo-tech and not very well known. Le Cordon Bleu is also here in town but as you indicated, they seem sort of millish to me...though they are on the ACF list.

The reason I say "just say no" to The LCB franchise is because of where they have come and what they are doing. LCB isn't the Paris school you hear about. LCB USED TO BE the Paris school (taught in French) and very exclusive. Only a few Americans attended. What the franchise is, is a for-profit that has been buying existing culinary schools and branding them. The LCB is charging as much money as CIA or J&W, but without the quality/resources/alumni network/reputation/facilities. They have nothing that warrants that kind of tuition. You'll understand after your campus visit. *which should include the LCB as well as CIA and your local CC.


Is there another big culinary school in Providence RI? Johnson and Wales or something? It was mentioned to us by a local chef of some notariety (here in Fl.) I had never heard of them but he made out like they are pretty big and well known.


Yep, J&W is part of my industry's "Big 3." J&W has always been in heavy competition with CIA, (along with the now defunct California Culinary Academy gobbled up by LCB). J&W was a university first, culinary school second. Their faculty, if you look, are CIA grads. Nuff said.

Sorry its so much....you seem eager to help and always appear to know your stuff!!!

Thanks so much !

Mike

btw, I took lil reb to NYC in Dec. for her birthday. it was an impromptu gastric crawl through some of the places she wanted to visit. Les Halles, MomoFuku Peche, Milk Bar, street food, Juniors, etc... We would love to go back that way to visit CIA. If the interest survives a little exposure and experience I'm pretty sure we can make a campus visit happen in the next year.....but don't tell lil reb or her Mamma just yet

[COLOR="red"]That sounds fun! Hyde Park is about 2 hours north of NYC. Students take the train down for weekend work. In any event, a visit to CIA (not during July or December- they are closed) should be a requirement.

I counted my students, since 1992 I've had just over 1500 come through my CC classroom. In that time, there have been 7 I've pulled out and said "you need to leave" and sent them to CIA. A CC will meet the needs of most cooks, without a doubt. But, CIA grads are not most cooks- they set you on the path for success. It's a different culture, a different kind of mentality. Even though I'm opening a voc-tech school, I am the first to tell you that it's all about meeting the needs of industry. Not everyone should go to CIA. But, it's an immersion education, there is no one there who is NOT a culinary or baking student. Imagine living for 4 years and talking/reading/breathing nothing but food. It's my happy place lol. My husband just got back, he went last weekend to meet up with a few former students. If you friend me on Facebook you're welcome to see my pics.[/COLOR]

[cookderosa]

Other local school is about an hour away but doable right now also. It is on the ACF list and that's Hillsborough CC Hillsborough Community College They are a smaller college than VCC and that might be appealing.
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Ok, the program has all the right elements. The students are doing enrichment activities and won a bronze medal at an ACF show- that's a huge deal. (It would be interesting to know who the team manager is and if they are still competing because an active team demonstrates a real commitment to excellence). I can't find their ACF accreditation listed anywhere, but that could be my mistake.

What I see as negatives. The 2 full time faculty teach "everything" and neither have strong backgrounds. Neither listed experience in their bio, and neither have actual culinary training. Don't let the BA/MA credentials impress you, those are not food degrees. Only the director's associate degree is a food degree, and it's from a CC.

I think it's probably "ok" and it looks like they try hard to do a good job. If class size is small (12 or fewer) and you enjoy your tour of the facilities, and as long as they actually are ACF accredited, I'd say it would be fine. I don't see any red flags.


**Edit** I looked at Valencia, I still think it places way below Hiilsborough.

[rebel100]

Jennifer, your the best!

Thanks for taking the time to give such detailed answeres!

She has looked into joining the local chapter ACF.

She is looking for job shadow/internship/part time work for the summer. There are at least two places that have Chefs with CIA or the J&W background that she is pushing for. We are working on identyfying other possibilities.

Gonna go have a chat with the instructor at local CC you liked and just see where it leads. She has another year of HS and she could at least take a few classes and check it out....up in the air at this point though. Maybe a part time industry related job and stay focused on Gen Ed towards her AA/BA/BS would be best. Keeping an open mind.

Do you have an opinion on if she should try and get "Food Safety Manager Cert"? The one through the state? There are several online options for it and it can be done pretty inexpensively. I think ACF even has a study option for it.

And finally, there is a 19 part self paced course on "Cooking Basics" offered through ACF. thought it might be done just for fun, but your comment about not wanting to be taught wrong is ringing in our ears. But then we linked to it through ACF... http://www.tapseries.com/sc_product_opti...lesson.asp.

Or we could spring for this one, Introduction to Cooking (Apprenticeship Course) |

Again thanks so much !!!

Mike

[rebel100]

A list of possible courses.

kdsi.org - Professional Development

Not trying to replace Culinary school, just thinking of foundational education while she's still in HS.

[cookderosa]

Jennifer,

The value shopper in me has to ask about the CIA Certifications Culinary Arts Certificate in San Antonio-The Culinary Institute of America Would there be in dusty appreciation for someone with a CC Culinary degree and a CIA Cert? I can even imagine lil reb testing out of Liberal Studies at COSC or TESC with a BS then venturing out to CIA for 30 weeks to get the cert. Just throwing it out there for your thoughts.....as if I haven't ask enough already!

I didn't mention that she is homeschool/dual enrolled as a HS junior and this year she will have 30 LL credits by mid may between the local CC and CLEPs. She also has an A average in all her courses taken at the CC, she is a great student and is motivated. She could finish or be very very close to an AA or AS by this time next year.

Culinary certification of any kind is a total waste of money. Spend an afternoon searching any/every job board you can find. Not one will ask for, require, or recommend a certification as part of a job. These were created to create a demand. (not to be confused with ACF certification which one obtains after years of work experience, and is highly regarded.)

Finish the AA because it's easier now than later. But, not because it will work for her in the culinary industry.

[cookderosa]

A list of possible courses.

kdsi.org - Professional Development

Not trying to replace Culinary school, just thinking of foundational education while she's still in HS.

I know this is hard for me to explain, but the best foundational education you can give her is in math and English. These are the two significant weaknesses among professional chef- and I mean SIGNIFICANT- I've taught culinary math for 12 years. Culinary math EATS students. It is THE brick wall that sends students running away from their passion. People leave the field because they can't intuit how to do food cost. English is a problem because chefs can't write. Chef's who write poorly don't write good menus. Poor menus don't sell food. Chef's who write poorly don't write good ad copy, or marketing promos, or business plans. There is no culinary spell-check, so if the chef can't spell Au Poive, certainly the secretary can't.

Secondly, she needs exposure so she is sure she's interested in culinary school. Exposure through interaction with real cooks, real kitchens, real chefs, real knives, and real stress. It's not for everyone. You can't watch and know, you have to do and decide. Ask her after she gets her first of 1000 burns, or her first of 1000 cuts.

There is nothing she's going to read that's going to help with exposure, it's just not prepatory until she actually has exposure. I think you should save your $100 and put it in the gas tank :p

[cookderosa]

Jennifer, your the best!

Thanks for taking the time to give such detailed answeres!

She has looked into joining the local chapter ACF.

She is looking for job shadow/internship/part time work for the summer. There are at least two places that have Chefs with CIA or the J&W background that she is pushing for. We are working on identyfying other possibilities.

Gonna go have a chat with the instructor at local CC you liked and just see where it leads. She has another year of HS and she could at least take a few classes and check it out....up in the air at this point though. Maybe a part time industry related job and stay focused on Gen Ed towards her AA/BA/BS would be best. Keeping an open mind.

Do you have an opinion on if she should try and get "Food Safety Manager Cert"? The one through the state? There are several online options for it and it can be done pretty inexpensively. I think ACF even has a study option for it.

And finally, there is a 19 part self paced course on "Cooking Basics" offered through ACF. thought it might be done just for fun, but your comment about not wanting to be taught wrong is ringing in our ears. But then we linked to it through ACF... http://www.tapseries.com/sc_product_opti...lesson.asp.

Or we could spring for this one, Introduction to Cooking (Apprenticeship Course) |

Again thanks so much !!!

Mike

**Edit** these are not offered through the ACF, they are simply linked through the site- not the same thing.