Sophia Courses to Avoid with the Pierpont BOG Degree

[Ares]

Pierpont does not accept the following courses for any credit:

Foundations of English Composition - Not accepted 0 Credit
Foundations of Statistics - Not accepted 0 Credit
Introduction to College Mathematics - Not accepted 0 Credit *

Does not meet General Education Requirements:

Introduction to Nutrition - Does not meet the GE Science requirement but does count for 3 credits.

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* Rant: Not accepting Introduction to College Mathematics for credit at all but accepting various other Sophia courses is honestly laughable IMO. That is probably the most well rounded practical math course for most majors outside of Science, Engineering and Math. I left out technology because many technology occupations including most programming jobs do not need high level math (I also spoke to all the software developers in my company and none of them use it). For most people this course will be 2-3 times harder than many other Sophia courses and it is disappointing it does not count for any credit.

Requiring Sophia's College Algebra (AKA Algebra II in high school) which is IMO the most useless high school math course I ever took in my life is just a waste of so many people's time (for the record I enjoyed courses like Trigonometry). For Sophia's College Algebra, I laughed at all the "real world" applications they tried to present which were nothing more than math puzzles most people would never have or need to solve. There are legions of calculators and programs out there to do these things for you. For instance I know how to read a paper map and calculate my remaining distance but why bother when I have Google maps? I have not ran across something in every day life I could not measure with a practical device like a tape measure or infrared thermometer. In some cases using the recommended algebraic formula took more time then doing some simple calculations for things like unit price comparisons which I do all the time when shopping. Claiming it helps with logical problem solving is nonsense, I hired a math major once and they were one of the worst people at troubleshooting, they also constantly turned simple things into impractical problems just like this course.

For the record and despite what I have read here, if you struggle with math, Sophia's College Algebra (Algebra II) will not be easy for you and I recommend taking a second science course instead.

[jg_nuy]

The CSM Learn is accepted & may work for many folks. My younger soon took it and it came in as MAT 1207 at Pierpont where he’s doing dual enrollment.

[Ares]

The CSM Learn is accepted & may work for many folks. My younger soon took it and it came in as MAT 1207 at Pierpont where he’s doing dual enrollment.

Has anyone compared the CMS course to a similar Sophia course? I am curious about which math course it is equivalent to.

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MTH 1207 - Fundamental Concepts of Mathematics (Pierpont) - "It is designed to strengthen computational skills while focusing on real-world problems. Topics may include critical thinking skills, sequences, set theory, logic, probability, statistics, consumer mathematics and the metric system."

MATH1020 - Introduction to College Mathematics (Sophia) - "By the end of the course, you'll be able to: Perform mathematical functions involving real numbers, apply mathematical concepts to linear equations and inequalities, identify the basic properties of exponential and logarithmic equations, use appropriate formulas to solve problems involving paychecks, interest, and investments and understand and identify key principles of probability and statistical methods."

I am highly skeptical there is much difference between the Pierpont and Sophia courses.

What makes even less sense about Pierpont not accepting Introduction to College Mathematics for any credit with the BOG degree is that TESU accepts it as MAT-105 Applied Liberal Arts Mathematics, Excelsior as MAT 101 Math for Everyday Life and even UMPI gives credit it for it as MAT-1XX Math Elective.

[LevelUP]

I left out technology because many technology occupations including most programming jobs do not need high level math (I also spoke to all the software developers in my company and none of them use it). For most people this course will be 2-3 times harder than many other Sophia courses and it is disappointing it does not count for any credit.

Requiring Sophia's College Algebra (AKA Algebra II in high school) which is IMO the most useless high school math course I ever took in my life is just a waste of so many people's time (for the record I enjoyed courses like Trigonometry). For Sophia's College Algebra, I laughed at all the "real world" applications they tried to present which were nothing more than math puzzles most people would never have or need to solve. There are legions of calculators and programs out there to do these things for you. For instance I know how to read a paper map and calculate my remaining distance but why bother when I have Google maps? I have not ran across something in every day life I could not measure with a practical device like a tape measure or infrared thermometer. In some cases using the recommended algebraic formula took more time then doing some simple calculations for things like unit price comparisons which I do all the time when shopping. Claiming it helps with logical problem solving is nonsense, I hired a math major once and they were one of the worst people at troubleshooting, they also constantly turned simple things into impractical problems just like this course.

For the record and despite what I have read here, if you struggle with math, Sophia's College Algebra (Algebra II) will not be easy for you and I recommend taking a second science course instead.

My opinion is that once you learn enough math in high school to do well on the ACT/SAT, which is a mix of Algebra, Geometry, and Trigonometry, then you don't need to learn any more math in college.

However, if you pursue an engineering degree, then you can't avoid doing lots of math. Similarly, Computer Science often requires Calculus.

Mathematics is valuable from a utilitarian perspective because you never know who might end up working for NASA or solving significant societal problems that demand a high level of mathematical skills. However, for 90% of people, additional math beyond high school isn't necessary.

Statistics is the course I recommend everyone take at Sophia because it's not overly difficult, and some master's programs require statistics.

You can take environmental science for the science requirement.

For other suggestions, check out the Wiki
https://degreeforum.miraheze.org/wiki/Pi...egree_Plan

[bjcheung77]

Basically, it really depends on your 'specific case', if you're going to be moving up to a Bachelors degree and need those credits for a particular field, or in the electives, and the institution takes them, you can still take these classes. For example, Excelsior, PUG, UMPI, TESU, WGU, and whatever else is on the WIKI takes all of them, you can use that as electives or whatever field requirement it transfers into.

[Ares]

TESU and UMPI do not take either Foundations of English Composition or Foundations of Statistics and there is no official information on Excelsior so both of those courses are relatively useless.

Introduction to College Mathematics can at least be used at 4-year Universities like TESU, Excelsior and UMPI which makes it confusing as to why it cannot be used at a 2-year school like Pierpont. I am curious if at Pierpont it is being confused with the older Sophia course Foundations of College Algebra.

[bjcheung77]

Again, depending on the degree and/or institution, one really needs to decide if they want to take it or not. Here is just one of a few 'equivalency' pages for Sophia.org https://degreeforum.miraheze.org/wiki/So...lency_List and then there are the 'specific institution' sites on Sophia.org, such as the Purdue Global one here, it indicates two of the three foundation classes are accepted: https://purdueglobal.sophia.org/#courses

[Ares]

Again, depending on the degree and/or institution, one really needs to decide if they want to take it or not.  Here is just one of a few 'equivalency' pages for Sophia.org https://degreeforum.miraheze.org/wiki/So...lency_List and then there are the 'specific institution' sites on Sophia.org, such as the Purdue Global one here, it indicates two of the three foundation classes are accepted: https://purdueglobal.sophia.org/#courses

I am well aware of the wiki pages. I find it fascinating that places like PUG and SNHU take all the Sophia courses (even the Foundation classes). yet places like the "Big 3" do not. TESU, Excelsior and Charter Oak are places you would want to max out these classes due to their higher transfer allowances. 

There is something really wrong with all this and I believe the "Big 3" are dropping the ball here. If a major University like Purdue is going to put it's name behind a PUG degree and accept these courses in transfer there is no excuse for second and third tier Colleges and Universities not to take these courses.

The real issue I see is that the "Big 3" do not have the proper resources to evaluate these courses and is effectively winging it with the transfer recommendations. PUG can pour money into staff to evaluate each course and make it fit something relevant considering Sophia is clearly creating and designing each course for acceptance as college transfer credit.

[bjcheung77]

Nah, they're not doing anything wrong, each institution has their own 'regulations and rules', some are more or less flexible. Not all institutions will accept NA, NCCRS, or over 90 credits of transfer, etc. That is why people need to know which degree/institution they want to go for and take whatever alternative credits usable first before going that route. Colleges/Universities generally only accept 30-45 credits of CLEP/AP, Dual Enrollment, etc, some have a max of 64 credits towards the bachelors, we're just able to 'find' some more that accept 90+ credits and have a small list to expand on.

[Ares]

Yes, I understand all that. I have been reading these forums for over 10 years. I understand every institution can make up its own rules on alternative transfer credits but that is not my point. You have effectively higher tier universities being more flexible with accepting ACE approved Sophia courses then the ones "allegedly" designed for exactly this type of thing. I believe this is due to them having the resources to properly evaluate them. I have read too many stories here about schools like TESU and Excelsior sometimes taking this or that course depending on who you talk to when you are evaluated which is nonsense. By "wrong" I believe it is an oversight or something like a single poorly informed staff member at one of these institutions making arbitrary decisions.

All the main institutions being discussed on this site take Sophia courses, yet there is no consistency in which courses they take. This should not be that complicated. At the minimum all of the Sophia courses should be accepted as free electives if they do not fit into a specific course category a certain institution carries.

Has anyone made the argument when denied Sophia transfer credit that more well known Universities like PUG and SNHU take these Sophia courses?

No one on this planet is going to convince me that Sophia's Introduction to College Mathematics is a "remedial level" math course worth 0 college credits but Introduction to Web Development should be counted for 3 college credits. The only way something like that happens is if you approve the course based on the title alone.