Sophia Quality... Questionable?

[wow]

I think it's worth mentioning that plenty of actual colleges offer both online and in-person classes without proctoring. I've attended three colleges online and three in-person:

1. Online college #1: I've taken six classes so far with no proctoring. Most exams were multiple choice and open book.
   
2. Online college #2: I took one class, no proctoring. Exams were open book and multiple choice.
   
3. Online college #3: Two classes, both proctored. All quizzes and exams were closed boo, including the proctored ones.
   
4. Brick & mortar college #1: ~20 classes; exams were proctored in ~3. Most exams were closed book.
   
5. Brick & mortar college #2: 3 classes, no proctoring. All exams were closed book.
   
6. Brick & mortar college #3: ~10 classes, most proctored. Most exams were closed book.
   

In college 4 & 5, I remember exactly zero incidents of cheating. A lecture hall would be full of students taking the same test, no professor or proctor would be around, and students reacted by ... continuing their tests without talking to each other or taking out their textbooks (this was back in the day before laptops, smartphones, and all that). Did a few people have well-hidden cheat sheets? It's possible. I never noticed or heard rumors of one though.

In college #6, I remember several incidents of cheating. Maybe the professor left the room for a minute—time to turn around and ask your neighbor for the answer to a tough question! Or you knew someone taking a different section of the same class; they had their test at 10 a.m. and yours was at 2 p.m. They might pass the questions on to you if you ask nicely.

I have trouble understanding why ACE courses are held to a higher standard than ones at traditional colleges. (Or rather, I get it, but I don't.)

I haven't taken the Sophia Sociology course, but my guess is that there are always people who can do well in any course based solely on life experience. That's one of the points of ACE—to give people a way to earn college credit based on what they already know so they don't have to sit through/pay for a college class that will be too easy for them anyway.

[ss20ts]

I haven't taken the Sophia Sociology course, but my guess is that there are always people who can do well in any course based solely on life experience. That's one of the points of ACE—to give people a way to earn college credit based on what they already know so they don't have to sit through/pay for a college class that will be too easy for them anyway.

My husband took the sociology course with Sophia and had zero experience in sociology. He found it very enjoyable and learned a great deal. He had some struggles with it as well. He spent more time on this course than every other course he took. I think he completed 5 courses in a month. But that's all he did every evening and most of the weekend. He was very dedicated to earning as many free credits as possible. Everyone's mileage will vary. He works in IT and has about 30 yers experience. I got a higher score on Introduction to Information Technology than he did. He got cocky about it and readily admits it. I also just finished a MIS course a few months ago where I covered much of the material. He thinks it's hilarious that the non-techy person in our house got a higher score.

[BrianFallon]

Hey everyone! It's been a long time since I've posted on the forums but I just can't help but bring this up. 

I was taking some Sophia courses to test them out during the free period and I couldn't believe how easy they are. I took Sociology in just a day (just over 2 hours) and that's one of the longer ones! 

The most disappointing thing to me was the practice final. It's only 25 questions long, open book and not proctored. They of course have that typing test to verify that it's you, but you could have 10 people in the room helping you, or you could type the sentence and walk away to have someone else take the test. Not to mention, just opening other tabs on your computer, which it didn't seem to specifically say not to do. Although I didn't do that because it seemed like cheating and I wasn't sure of the rules, and it was so stupid easy I didn't need to. I didn't even need to use the open book material they prompt you to check during the test. Additionally, I went through it as quickly as I could so I didn't read one line of text from the transcripts, I only went through and took the quizzes and milestones. I don't say this to brag - rather to point out that I think anyone would do just fine with that method. Especially on the final, since some of the questions were so blatantly obvious a 10 year old could answer them. 

I understand that people shouldn't cheat even if they won't get caught, but it all just seems a little ridiculous. I know it's nice to have courses that are easy - I'd be lying if I said I didn't always look for the easiest CLEP, DSST, Straighterline and Study.com courses to meet my requirements. But something that easy (and easy to cheat on) seems like it really lowers the integrity of what it means for a course to be ACE approved. 

I'm honestly pretty disappointed to see this. But I'm curious to hear other opinions on it!

I'll chalk this post up to "you can lead a horse to water...."

Here's what I think:

1.  We each - every one of us - have different aptitudes, interests, and backgrounds.  I've worked in tax administration since 2006.  IF I took Sophia's Accounting course, I'd expect that I'd breeze through it - it's what I've been doing every day.  (If I didn't - well, new career time?)  Likewise, with their Information Technology.  I took the CLEP Info Systems but when I found out that TESU has different equivalencies - I signed up for Information Technology.  I found it pretty basic but a decent amount of information.  Likewise with Sophia's Project Management course - why?  I spent two years on a project team rewriting an 18 month technical tax collection training program - I was exposed to the themes, concepts, and terms - but the course brought it together.    Our experience shapes our experiences - if you follow me.

2.  Each of the Sophia courses that I took (I ended up with 16 courses @ 3 credits each for 48 hours) had an inordinate amount of resources - video, PDF, the web material.  If you downloaded the PDF for each of the sections, you'd have MORE than a typical college text book.  It was pretty content rich, compared to say, onlinedegree.com, Straighterline, and Aleks.  If one chose to avail oneself of the material, it was actually pretty good.

3.  I suppose that if one skims for answers and can regurgitate the information, that's one valid path.  I don't know your situation and won't be overly critical of your approach.  I took a different approach - as I wrote previously.  My goal was simply two courses - Algebra and Stats.  Why?  I really struggled with the Aleks format.  I just could not get a sense of place in the course.  But Sophia was different.  Depending on the course, I moved quickly through some and very slowly through others.  I had to rewatch a video or two.  Some of the courses I took will not fulfill any bit of my degree requirements, but I found them to be fun.  I took a philosophy course at a local B&M college, but the Greek Philosophers was a good reinforcement.  I believe there is validity in learning for the sake of learning.  : 

4.  We're all going to demonstrate our learning in different ways and personal preference plays a role when we select our alt credit providers.  I didn't pick Sophia before the free trial because, frankly, I thought at $329 a course, my local community college is much cheaper.  Granted, it would take longer at the B&M, BUT, I've waited so long for my degree anyway.     During the trial, I was more than pleasantly surprised by the courses.  AFTER the trial, with a $149 annual subscription and 27 three credit courses available, they will quickly become a provider of choice for many people.  I just don't see how you could turn that offer away - if you need their courses.  IF they add a few UL courses, I'd be a customer.

[ctcarl]

Haha, a little harsh don't you think?

Absolutely not.

Incidentally, you shouldn't preface a statement with "honestly".  All that means is that you usually lie, but just this one time, you're going to tell the truth.

Doesn't sit well with all of your virtuous posturing.  Although there's a certain irony there, if you like that sort of thing.

[wow]

Haha, a little harsh don't you think?

Absolutely not.

Incidentally, you shouldn't preface a statement with "honestly".  All that means is that you usually lie, but just this one time, you're going to tell the truth.

Doesn't sit well with all of your virtuous posturing.  Although there's a certain irony there, if you like that sort of thing.

Well *that* was harsh. I didn't agree with gremlinbrawler's original post either, *and* I agreed with your original comment, but implying they're a liar based on their use of an adverb that is widely employed for emphasis in the English language is unfounded and unnecessary.

[gremlinbrawler]

Haha, a little harsh don't you think?

Absolutely not.

Incidentally, you shouldn't preface a statement with "honestly".  All that means is that you usually lie, but just this one time, you're going to tell the truth.

Doesn't sit well with all of your virtuous posturing.  Although there's a certain irony there, if you like that sort of thing.

I didn't think about that word being unnecessary. I suppose I mean it in the way of "I hesitate to say this" but maybe I overuse it. I used to overuse "of course" in my writing too until someone pointed it out. 

Sorry if I seemed pretentious. I was hoping to open up something as a friendly discussion but I came off all wrong. I'll try to be more humble in the future. Have a good weekend ctcarl.

[ctcarl]

Well *that* was harsh. I didn't agree with gremlinbrawler's original post either, *and* I agreed with your original comment, but implying they're a liar based on their use of an adverb that is widely employed for emphasis in the English language is unfounded and unnecessary.

You're entitled to your opinion, just as I'm entitled to mine.  Hey, if you want to go through life implying that you would normally lie, but you're going to tell the truth just this once, who am I to argue?

[wow]

... The Ancient Greek Philosophers course also surprised me because it's only one unit and worth 3 credit hours. 

... I do love their materials. I was very impressed with the material in the Psychology course. They actually make useful comparisons and organize the material so you can understand things in context. They're also concise but provide enough information. I went through the Psychology material very slowly but never got to the end. I had a friend who needed to take the Psychology CLEP and I suggested she use the free Sophia course to prep. She passed using only the free Sophia resources and an REA practice test to prepare. So I definitely think their resources are adequate to be comparable to the other providers. ...

Did you take Ancient Greek Philosophers? I did not find it easy at all. I found the material fairly comparable to what they have in other courses, but organized differently. Each Challenge covered a lot of material and could have been split up into several challenges followed by a milestone. I don't know why they organized it the way they did, but I was nervous that so much of the grade depI expect when it goes up for reaccreditation, they will change the format to be more in line with the other courses.

For the benefit of any Big 3 decision makers reading this forum, it might have been helpful to include your praise for the psychology course in your initial post.   Even if it is the case that the sociology course is objectively too easy, one weak course shouldn't be used to condemn all the others. But I'm glad to read you liked the materials and so did your friend. I haven't taken it yet but am planning too.

[gremlinbrawler]

I think it's worth mentioning that plenty of actual colleges offer both online and in-person classes without proctoring. I've attended three colleges online and three in-person:

1. Online college #1: I've taken six classes so far with no proctoring. Most exams were multiple choice and open book.
   
2. Online college #2: I took one class, no proctoring. Exams were open book and multiple choice.
   
3. Online college #3: Two classes, both proctored. All quizzes and exams were closed boo, including the proctored ones.
   
4. Brick & mortar college #1: ~20 classes; exams were proctored in ~3. Most exams were closed book.
   
5. Brick & mortar college #2: 3 classes, no proctoring. All exams were closed book.
   
6. Brick & mortar college #3: ~10 classes, most proctored. Most exams were closed book.
   

In college 4 & 5, I remember exactly zero incidents of cheating. A lecture hall would be full of students taking the same test, no professor or proctor would be around, and students reacted by ... continuing their tests without talking to each other or taking out their textbooks (this was back in the day before laptops, smartphones, and all that). Did a few people have well-hidden cheat sheets? It's possible. I never noticed or heard rumors of one though.

In college #6, I remember several incidents of cheating. Maybe the professor left the room for a minute—time to turn around and ask your neighbor for the answer to a tough question! Or you knew someone taking a different section of the same class; they had their test at 10 a.m. and yours was at 2 p.m. They might pass the questions on to you if you ask nicely.

I have trouble understanding why ACE courses are held to a higher standard than ones at traditional colleges. (Or rather, I get it, but I don't.)

I haven't taken the Sophia Sociology course, but my guess is that there are always people who can do well in any course based solely on life experience. That's one of the points of ACE—to give people a way to earn college credit based on what they already know so they don't have to sit through/pay for a college class that will be too easy for them anyway.

That's really interesting. I remember people talking so openly about how they were trying to cheat when I went to community college too. And they were right outside the classroom where the professor was during our break! It almost seems like people try to cheat more when they aren't on the honor system. 

I wasn't aware that traditional colleges often have unproctored exams. That's really helpful to know because it helps support the argument of why alternative forms of learning aren't "lesser". 

My concern was that the Sophia courses are much easier than other ACE courses but after hearing about everyone else's experiences it seems like that isn't the case. I know a lot of people can take the Sociology CLEP cold so it might just be one of those subjects that some people are able to guess on more easily.

---

... The Ancient Greek Philosophers course also surprised me because it's only one unit and worth 3 credit hours. 

... I do love their materials. I was very impressed with the material in the Psychology course. They actually make useful comparisons and organize the material so you can understand things in context. They're also concise but provide enough information. I went through the Psychology material very slowly but never got to the end. I had a friend who needed to take the Psychology CLEP and I suggested she use the free Sophia course to prep. She passed using only the free Sophia resources and an REA practice test to prepare. So I definitely think their resources are adequate to be comparable to the other providers. ...

Did you take Ancient Greek Philosophers? I did not find it easy at all. I found the material fairly comparable to what they have in other courses, but organized differently. Each Challenge covered a lot of material and could have been split up into several challenges followed by a milestone. I don't know why they organized it the way they did, but I was nervous that so much of the grade depI expect when it goes up for reaccreditation, they will change the format to be more in line with the other courses.

For the benefit of any Big 3 decision makers reading this forum, it might have been helpful to include your praise for the psychology course in your initial post.   Even if it is the case that the sociology course is objectively too easy, one weak course shouldn't be used to condemn all the others. But I'm glad to read you liked the materials and so did your friend. I haven't taken it yet but am planning too.

Nope, didn't really take Ancient Greek Philosophers. I had like 20 minutes till midnight when I started Ancient Greek Philosophers and I wanted to get a look at the final so I randomly clicked through the quiz sections to unlock the final without reading any of them. Entirely by luck, I scored high enough to unlock the final but the questions on that one were a lot harder for me to guess on than Sociology. Didn't get through the whole 25 question final before midnight.

Yeah that's a good point! I suppose I assumed the final on Psychology is similar to the one on Sociology. The materials are great but it didn't seem like you're really tested on the meat of the materials. But again, maybe that was just the course I took, or I got lucky.

[Pats20]

I think it's worth mentioning that plenty of actual colleges offer both online and in-person classes without proctoring. I've attended three colleges online and three in-person:

1. Online college #1: I've taken six classes so far with no proctoring. Most exams were multiple choice and open book.
   
2. Online college #2: I took one class, no proctoring. Exams were open book and multiple choice.
   
3. Online college #3: Two classes, both proctored. All quizzes and exams were closed boo, including the proctored ones.
   
4. Brick & mortar college #1: ~20 classes; exams were proctored in ~3. Most exams were closed book.
   
5. Brick & mortar college #2: 3 classes, no proctoring. All exams were closed book.
   
6. Brick & mortar college #3: ~10 classes, most proctored. Most exams were closed book.
   

In college 4 & 5, I remember exactly zero incidents of cheating. A lecture hall would be full of students taking the same test, no professor or proctor would be around, and students reacted by ... continuing their tests without talking to each other or taking out their textbooks (this was back in the day before laptops, smartphones, and all that). Did a few people have well-hidden cheat sheets? It's possible. I never noticed or heard rumors of one though.

In college #6, I remember several incidents of cheating. Maybe the professor left the room for a minute—time to turn around and ask your neighbor for the answer to a tough question! Or you knew someone taking a different section of the same class; they had their test at 10 a.m. and yours was at 2 p.m. They might pass the questions on to you if you ask nicely.

I have trouble understanding why ACE courses are held to a higher standard than ones at traditional colleges. (Or rather, I get it, but I don't.)

I haven't taken the Sophia Sociology course, but my guess is that there are always people who can do well in any course based solely on life experience. That's one of the points of ACE—to give people a way to earn college credit based on what they already know so they don't have to sit through/pay for a college class that will be too easy for them anyway.

That's really interesting. I remember people talking so openly about how they were trying to cheat when I went to community college too. And they were right outside the classroom where the professor was during our break! It almost seems like people try to cheat more when they aren't on the honor system. 

I wasn't aware that traditional colleges often have unproctored exams. That's really helpful to know because it helps support the argument of why alternative forms of learning aren't "lesser". 

My concern was that the Sophia courses are much easier than other ACE courses but after hearing about everyone else's experiences it seems like that isn't the case. I know a lot of people can take the Sociology CLEP cold so it might just be one of those subjects that some people are able to guess on more easily.

---

... The Ancient Greek Philosophers course also surprised me because it's only one unit and worth 3 credit hours. 

... I do love their materials. I was very impressed with the material in the Psychology course. They actually make useful comparisons and organize the material so you can understand things in context. They're also concise but provide enough information. I went through the Psychology material very slowly but never got to the end. I had a friend who needed to take the Psychology CLEP and I suggested she use the free Sophia course to prep. She passed using only the free Sophia resources and an REA practice test to prepare. So I definitely think their resources are adequate to be comparable to the other providers. ...

Did you take Ancient Greek Philosophers? I did not find it easy at all. I found the material fairly comparable to what they have in other courses, but organized differently. Each Challenge covered a lot of material and could have been split up into several challenges followed by a milestone. I don't know why they organized it the way they did, but I was nervous that so much of the grade depI expect when it goes up for reaccreditation, they will change the format to be more in line with the other courses.

For the benefit of any Big 3 decision makers reading this forum, it might have been helpful to include your praise for the psychology course in your initial post.   Even if it is the case that the sociology course is objectively too easy, one weak course shouldn't be used to condemn all the others. But I'm glad to read you liked the materials and so did your friend. I haven't taken it yet but am planning too.

Nope, didn't really take Ancient Greek Philosophers. I had like 20 minutes till midnight when I started Ancient Greek Philosophers and I wanted to get a look at the final so I randomly clicked through the quiz sections to unlock the final without reading any of them. Entirely by luck, I scored high enough to unlock the final but the questions on that one were a lot harder for me to guess on than Sociology. Didn't get through the whole 25 question final before midnight.

Yeah that's a good point! I suppose I assumed the final on Psychology is similar to the one on Sociology. The materials are great but it didn't seem like you're really tested on the meat of the materials. But again, maybe that was just the course I took, or I got lucky.

You didn’t have to complete the final by midnight. You just had to be enrolled by midnight. Unless You had other courses in mind.