WGU Layoffs

[rachel83az]

I would definitely stray away from saying that WGU is a diploma mill. That means some very specific things and I don't think any of that criteria is met by WGU. Do they have some distasteful policies? Absolutely. But that doesn't make them a diploma mill.

Can you give some examples of "distasteful policies"?

1. Examity (this is the biggest one)
   
2. Weekly check-ins. Or not. Inconsistent application of this policy probably fails many students.
   
3. No international students, regardless of citizenship. (Except some Canadians because reasons.)
   

All schools have distasteful policies to one degree or another, depending on your point of view. I'd rather be told how to dress than risk having my identity stolen because of a dubious proctor but someone else might feel otherwise.

[JusticeNamaste]

Hello to All,

Firstly, let me begin by assuring everyone that I am NOT a troll although I did enjoy the movie

Everything that I have written is true, according to my former course instructor.  How much of what this person said is true, I do not know and I would hazard to caution: nor does anyone.  People do and say things all the time - does it make true/valid? Maybe. Sometimes.

And maybe not.

Here is what I DO know (and this information is readily available to anyone with an inclination to research).  The current president of the university is a former VP at Amazon.  Why is this important? Because, first and foremost, a university chose to hire someone who has no understanding of higher education - what IS understood is business.  Is this necessarily a "bad" thing? Well - again, Amazon is unfortunately rather notorious for NOT treating its employees well at all; and most recently, an attempt to unionize by Amazon workers was quashed  - how is this germane to this particular thread? Hmm -  maybe connect the dots - meaning, quite simply this:

When a university president is hired from a company that has a very negative reputation for how it treats the employees who work for said company, one can see why WGU is very much on the precipice of becoming a "diploma mill" and so the callous disregard for how it treats their employees becomes much easier to understand.  It's been interesting to me in reading all these comments that no one seems to suggest something that could have actually negated the bad publicity from what occurred with the recent layoffs.

It's quite simple and if WGU had wise counsel and a good PR person they might have suggested this instead: have the upper senior level management volunteer to take pay cuts so the layoffs do not have to happen.  As another poster made mention of, if there is no physical campus that students must attend then why the million dollar plus salary for those such as Mr. Pulsipher and the others?

"Follow the money" as they say.

I also wonder how many posters on here are aware that a few years ago WGU was audited by the Office of the Inspector General:

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019...gs-western

I still believe with my whole heart, that at its core, this school is a scam.  It's just dressed up rather nicely, that's all.  If other students are helped in their professional careers by WGU, then that is wonderful (for them); however, that does not mean that WGU is not a diploma mill.  They are a bloated institution that basically is running a con and so far, it's working.

https://www.bbb.org/us/ut/salt-lake-city...66-4001017


Just to redress the notion that I am somehow a "troll" here are both positive and negative reviews by students, for WGU:

https://www.gradreports.com/colleges/wes...university

Bottom Line: it's a choice, like everything else in life.  Make of it what you will.  Beware though: "A wolf in sheep's clothing"

There are like 20 customer reviews on BBB, and WGU doesn't even belong to that company, so I wonder if there's even a way to dispute the complaints?  This is just silly.

I'm also willing to bet that the vast majority of students who complain about WGU do so because of the competency-based model rather than quality.  Just a guess, but while I do understand that this is not for everyone, I'm sure there are plenty of students who just aren't ready for the difficulty, don't have an ability to self-teach that is required, and aren't moving quickly enough through courses to make this a feasible program for them.  Instead of just realizing this and stopping, they complain.  I get it.  But I don't necessarily think all of the complaints are valid.

Your understanding of how business works is a bit...lacking I think.  Colleges ARE businesses.  They need to make money, even if they are non-profits - it a business doesn't make money, then it's either a hobby or will no longer exist.  And the sooner a businessperson with some business sense is put in charge of a business, no matter the type, the better.  If more colleges were run as businesses, they might be doing better.  How much someone gets paid in a business is usually dependent upon the market - so if the head guy makes millions, it's probably because they think he's worth it, and because that's what the market requires.  I'm sure if they could have found someone cheaper, they may have hired that person instead.

And just so you know, most senior-level leadership have contracts - so you can't take the money from them.  But even if you could, or even if they volunteered, that is RARELY a good plan - because it's not enough money overall to bail out the company of their problem.  A few people at the top just don't make enough for that.  If you look long-term at the numbers, having a few (10?) VP's give up some money isn't going to make up for 160 employees making 80k a year plus benefits.  It just doesn't add up.


I think WGU just handled this incredibly poorly, and need to fix their problems before they have a mutiny on their hands (both from employees and students leaving in droves).

Hmm, well - I agree with some of your comments (Socratic Dialogue is very refreshing in this day and age!)

Your comment about how colleges are businesses is apt, but also sad because at one time, a university education was NOT about such things but rather - umm - learning and umm - oh yes! "Critical Thinking and Reasoning Skills" - which now seems to be a thing of the past.  I get it: the world is digital now and much, if not all, of life, is quite capable of taking place online now.  Here's the thing though:

What an individual learns and can apply in an applicable manner is one thing, the ABILITY of that individual to have nuanced thinking and reasoning skills that can be applied to "real life" is something entirely different.  One does not live in a bubble (at least not yet).

Point being this: the word "university" is a misnomer in that it seems to portend a well rounded education has been earned.

Have you noticed just how little liberal arts "competencies" there are at WGU? Do you think this is coincidental?

It would serve a better purpose if perhaps WGU instead "rebranded" (that's a business term, is it not?!) to something like "Institution of Learning" because people ARE learning - something - one would hope; but comparing WGU to Duke University as the other poster below does is absolutely ludicrous because they are quite simply NOT the same thing at all - nor will they ever be.

[jsd]

but comparing WGU to Duke University as the other poster below does is absolutely ludicrous because they are quite simply NOT the same thing at all - nor will they ever be.

If you think I was equating the quality of WGU with Duke, you might want to re-read what I actually said. In fact, I was specifically giving an example of a more well-known, prestigious institution going through a layoff cycle. You continue to misrepresent facts to make your points, but you'd serve your argument much better by engaging honestly.

[LevelUP]

You see this type of drama/rule changes over and over again at these schools.

School is a game and in order to win at the game, you should get in and get out as quickly as you can.

[GizmoJack]

I would definitely stray away from saying that WGU is a diploma mill. That means some very specific things and I don't think any of that criteria is met by WGU. Do they have some distasteful policies? Absolutely. But that doesn't make them a diploma mill.

Can you give some examples of "distasteful policies"?

1. Examity (this is the biggest one)
   
2. Weekly check-ins. Or not. Inconsistent application of this policy probably fails many students.
   
3. No international students, regardless of citizenship. (Except some Canadians because reasons.)
   

All schools have distasteful policies to one degree or another, depending on your point of view. I'd rather be told how to dress than risk having my identity stolen because of a dubious proctor but someone else might feel otherwise.

I sent you a PM as I don't want to get into a flaming contest over a handful of examples out of 100K+ students. As someone who has actually attended the school, I think I am qualified to challenge your opinions.

[dfrecore]

Your comment about how colleges are businesses is apt, but also sad because at one time, a university education was NOT about such things but rather - umm - learning and umm - oh yes! "Critical Thinking and Reasoning Skills" - which now seems to be a thing of the past.  I get it: the world is digital now and much, if not all, of life, is quite capable of taking place online now.

Just because a university is a business does not preclude it also being a place where people learn things.  Those are 2 different things.  So you can be a poorly run university where people learn a lot and then you have to close down because someone at the top wasn't treating it as a business; or you can be a well-run university where people learn a lot and can continue to do so because someone at the top realizes that it needs to be run as a business (see St. Mary's College in the SF Bay Area - a women's college which is very highly regarded and yet is going out of business, probably for various reasons but also because they don't see it as a business that needs to be well-run to survive).

And none of this has to do with the world being digital (although a school with NO online options probably isn't going to do real well in this day and age either).

[ss20ts]

All schools have distasteful policies to one degree or another, depending on your point of view. I'd rather be told how to dress than risk having my identity stolen because of a dubious proctor but someone else might feel otherwise.

These links are disgusting! I can't believe people pay to attend schools that control every aspect of your life. You're an adult and cannot leave campus without signing out? WTF? The place sounds like a cult or a prison. Even prisoners get to go outside for an hour a day.

[rachel83az]

All schools have distasteful policies to one degree or another, depending on your point of view. I'd rather be told how to dress than risk having my identity stolen because of a dubious proctor but someone else might feel otherwise.

These links are disgusting! I can't believe people pay to attend schools that control every aspect of your life. You're an adult and cannot leave campus without signing out? WTF? The place sounds like a cult or a prison. Even prisoners get to go outside for an hour a day.

Agreed! I'm not saying that it's good at all to go to those schools but,  like a prison sentence, you at least have an end date and only have to deal with it for a short while. If someone steals your identity, that's something you potentially have to deal with for the rest of your life.

[sacredrain]

I am a contract evalulator at WGU and have some colleagues at the university. AI's are not scanning papers or grading them, this is a false rumor. Nor will they in the future. As for the comments when evaluating papers being automated or the same, an evaulator has to use the rubric provided and the template to select when assessing a student's work.

As for tuition increases, WGU is still one of the most affordable universities in America. I am not sticking up for them, but I work for multiple places and the tution is much higher at many private and public universities where I work. I know people are upset about layoffs but sorry, it does happen. As previously stated, in 2012 I was laid off from Kaplan University, 2 weeks before Christmas, people who had spent their money on Christmas presents, were now out of a job and had to find work.

I had colleagues who were out of jobs when ITT Tech closed without warning. I am now seeing some of my friends who work in K to 12, being told they do not have jobs next year, due to budget cuts and are having to try and find new teaching jobs. No job is a guarantee and as for communication its not required, you can go into work in the morning and before you leave at 5pm at the end of the day, be told you are terminated.

[collegechick]

All schools have distasteful policies to one degree or another, depending on your point of view. I'd rather be told how to dress than risk having my identity stolen because of a dubious proctor but someone else might feel otherwise.

These links are disgusting! I can't believe people pay to attend schools that control every aspect of your life. You're an adult and cannot leave campus without signing out? WTF? The place sounds like a cult or a prison. Even prisoners get to go outside for an hour a day.

Agreed! I'm not saying that it's good at all to go to those schools but,  like a prison sentence, you at least have an end date and only have to deal with it for a short while. If someone steals your identity, that's something you potentially have to deal with for the rest of your life.

Ever since the Equifax breach in 2017, we all are at risk for our identities being stolen.  This is why I froze my credit and will manually unlock it when I need it.  Proctoring/installing spyware onto my computer does suck, so I use a secondary laptop void of any information.  Unfortunately for all of us doing online school, this is the risk we have to take.

As far as a school calling weekly to check in with me is really nice.  Since I'm not anti-social and extremely extroverted, I welcome these conversations.  It was a rocky start with WGU getting someone helpful to answer my questions, but I was finally connected with the Graduate Studies Manager and an awesome enrollment counselor.

As far as WGU being a scam as JusticeNamaste put it, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  They're still regionally accredited, low-cost, respected and accelerated so this is good enough for me.  For all of you WGU haters, isn't it beautiful that you have a generous amount of alternative schools to pick from and no one is forcing you to attend WGU?  I wish you all the best in your academic endeavors.