What's Better: Unaccredited PhD or Self-Study PhD?

[Merlin]

Do you know of any Seminaries that would do this or have a program that will grant a PhD based on prior work? I have not personally run across any in my search for a school, but I would certainly be interested. It would need to be nationally or regionally accredited, of course. And not cost prohibited (which is the real problem with Liberty - the cheapest so far among RA seminary/schools).

I don't know of any in the US, but when I was researching UK schools I ran across a few that will grant degrees based on publication body of work. I didn't make note of them since I didn't think that was an avenue for me, but I'm sure you can probably find a few using Google.

[rachel83az]

Here's a UK site that explains the process: https://www.findaphd.com/advice/phd-type...ation.aspx Short answer: you need to have at least a bachelor's degree for several years. The program(me)s usually aren't advertised so you may not be able to find one easily.

Here's a PhD by published work at the University of Warwick: https://warwick.ac.uk/study/postgraduate...lishedwork

Here's a page where someone else asked abput PhD by Prior Publication and got some suggestions on universities to check out: https://www.researchgate.net/post/Can-yo...ublication

[isaachunter]

Thanks for the responses on this idea: PhD by Portfolio or by Prior Publication. It is an interesting idea, and, as I thought about it, I can recall two people I'm acquainted with in my general area of research who did just this kind of process.

James White: He received his ThD from Columbia Evangelical Seminary based on previous published work. He either already had several books published or had the manuscripts completed and received the degree based on that work (and possibly some additional reflective work to document it). Unfortunately, CES is unaccredited and he has gotten a ton of flack because of it.

Chuck Missler: He received a PhD from Louisiana Baptist University based on the ministry work he'd completed over several decades (he has produced several survey lecture series of the Bible as well as a complete book by book commentary lecture series of the Bible, including several books, and started his own ministry school). Unfortunately, LBU is unaccredited and no one in Christian academia takes him seriously (though some have admitted he has had a real effect in bringing biblical literacy to the Church).

BUT, all that being said, it is still an interesting idea that might catch on in the near future if student enrollment across the board continues to drop. Students will one day reach a tipping point where they will no longer accept taking on mass amounts of debilitating debt for degrees that mean next to nothing in a flooded market. 

If I focus on the practical work now (since I can't really afford the traditional route anyway), I might just start propositioning Seminaries in the US in a few years and see if any department head would take a chance. Never can hurt to ask. There was a time when I was laughed out of my high school guidance counselor's office because I requested to do all my classes as independent studies and just report to the library every day to do my work. But now, this is a viable option for many high school students. Things change. Maybe self-studying my PhD will pay off in the end. It's a huge risk but so is paying gobs of money for a degree that is essentially useless (even an RA degree). 

It is all a great deal of food for thought. Thanks for suggesting this option.

[openair]

Keep in mind that NationsU may offer a doctoral program down the road. Their chief academic officer revealed these plans during a video meeting. However, he also said that this would likely be a long process (several years long). It's hard to make any guarantees. At this time, DEAC (their accrediting body) tends to focus on professional doctorates.

[bjcheung77]

LOL, hmm, if you're looking to create an educational institution and getting a credential from it, that's a workable option!  In fact, I'll chip in 50/50, you manage the Seminary, and I'll manage the rest - OK Partner?!  Seriously, I've always wanted to create an educational institution that can grant degrees legally... we can create something like this, it's cheap for their Florida state authorized PhD's: http://www.northwesternseminary.com/accreditation.htm and they're legal (in the state at least), inexpensive http://www.northwesternseminary.com/Appl...minary.htm

[openair]

I would also gladly join the seminary team. ;-) In Florida, you don't even need a partner, or faculty. A lot of the religous exempt institutions are set up as one-man operations. :-)

[isaachunter]

Keep in mind that NationsU may offer a doctoral program down the road. Their chief academic officer revealed these plans during a video meeting. However, he also said that this would likely be a long process (several years long). It's hard to make any guarantees. At this time, DEAC (their accrediting body) tends to focus on professional doctorates.

Yes, I've spoken with NationsU. It will take years despite there being a demand. It is disappointing to say the least. Master's International University of Divinity is the closest Seminary I've found that is structured similarly to NationsU if not academically then at least financially. But, alas, they are unaccredited and so carry no legitimacy. If only they would get national accreditation, it would be perfect.

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LOL, hmm, if you're looking to create an educational institution and getting a credential from it, that's a workable option!  In fact, I'll chip in 50/50, you manage the Seminary, and I'll manage the rest - OK Partner?!  Seriously, I've always wanted to create an educational institution that can grant degrees legally... we can create something like this, it's cheap for their Florida state authorized PhD's: http://www.northwesternseminary.com/accreditation.htm and they're legal (in the state at least), inexpensive http://www.northwesternseminary.com/Appl...minary.htm

Not sure which post you are referring to. I'm not looking to create an institution and then get a credential from it. There are several goals I have in mind.

1. I would like to go the route of self-studying a PhD and then have a regionally accredited seminary grant a PhD by Prior Publication or through past work. Not sure if that would ever be possible. Apparently it is in Europe. But, at any rate, I'm self-studying regardless because I simply have no other option that is financially viable. 

2. I would like to launch several online courses that are independent of an institution or seminary, since I do not have the needed credential to teach at said seminaries (PhD). NationsU claims they allow Master degree holders to teach but in reality they want you to have a PhD. With the state of the applicant pool these days, you will need both a PhD and a lot of teaching experience to actually land even an adjunct position. NationsU is all volunteer. I can do that on my own, teaching the subjects I want to teach. This would not be an accredited school or even a school really. Maybe provide certificates for finishing a class. There are several such programs available online: Koinonia Institute, etc.

3. Starting a Seminary.....that grants actual degrees.....I don't know if I'm up for that. I would rather complete a PhD at an unaccredited seminary and then try and get hired on at one of the unaccredited seminaries already established. Starting from scratch sounds like way too much work and, in the end, you're reputation will be in the dumps for years and years until you can swing national or regional accreditation. Good luck, though, in Florida!

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I would also gladly join the seminary team. ;-) In Florida, you don't even need a partner, or faculty. A lot of the religous exempt institutions are set up as one-man operations. :-)

Look at that, we already have people wanting to join the faculty and we don't even have a name for the Seminary yet!

One-Man operation was basically what CES is (or, at least, was - that was a major criticism with the James White controversies surrounding his ThD). But still, say you open a seminary, and get students to enroll, if you're a one man operation you have all those papers to grade, all those dissertations to read. Talk about miserable. 

I think this is what happened to North American Theological Seminary (NATS). I found that school back in the beginning after the original guy had just started it and I helped him redo his website. After he turned it over to the next group of people, they took off, getting all kinds of new students. But, papers started piling up in the Q because they could not attract mentors to grade them (mentors were all volunteer). Since then they have rebranded as the Log Cabin Seminary (something like that) where the student has to bring their own mentor to the party. Talk about outsourcing! Still free, though. Oh, and also unaccredited.

[bjcheung77]

If I go the entrepreneurial route and hang out my own shingle, start my own school like the ancient philosophers used to do, like Paul often did (preaching out of a rented lecture hall), then self-study would certainly be more cost effective than an unaccredited program. But it would lack credentials. Would the unaccredited program provide any more credentialing or would self-study vs unaccredited be essentially the same as far as legitimacy?  

I see self-study's value is in the acquisition of knew knowledge at the "free" cost. I will learn the same if not more (maybe less) in self-study than I would in an unaccredited, NA, or even RA program. I've done enough of all three to know I personally learn more through self-study than through formalized programs. But I also knew while in high school that I could learn more in a day hold up in the library than I could in an entire year in public high school. But there was no convincing the administration that (believe me, I tried).  

Hey! There has been a bit of information being posted in these threads, it's hard to recall, but it's your first post, I was referring to the info above:  I actually support your thinking, going the entrepreneurial route and have your own school.  You can even conduct classes using Udemy by donation, just to start out.  You have an accredited Masters already, you don't have to be held down by what others tell you, with a PhD or not, you can start teaching what you want to teach with that platform and many others out there. 

I would monetize a website for subscriptions though for those who may want to pay for a specific set of courses you create and their end goal is just a certificate or diploma of completion... I am an individual who takes a lot of cheap/free courses as long as it's something interesting to me, they're not all necessarily for promotion purposes, there are free/paid resources out there for learners alike, but some like it in one place and you can create a little niche for what you do... sell your experience and at an affordable price!

[isaachunter]

Hey! There has been a bit of information being posted in these threads, it's hard to recall, but it's your first post, I was referring to the info above:  I actually support your thinking, going the entrepreneurial route and have your own school.  You can even conduct classes using Udemy by donation, just to start out.  You have an accredited Masters already, you don't have to be held down by what others tell you, with a PhD or not, you can start teaching what you want to teach with that platform and many others out there. 

I would monetize a website for subscriptions though for those who may want to pay for a specific set of courses you create and their end goal is just a certificate or diploma of completion... I am an individual who takes a lot of cheap/free courses as long as it's something interesting to me, they're not all necessarily for promotion purposes, there are free/paid resources out there for learners alike, but some like it in one place and you can create a little niche for what you do... sell your experience and at an affordable price!

I would agree completely.

I already have my "LMS" selected and a rough sketch of the curriculum I want to teach. I'm moving in this direction while continuing my self-study through advanced curriculum (ThM and PhD). Once completed with those, depending on the state of the Academy at that point, I might seek out a forward thinking Seminary and see if they would do a PhD program by Publication. It seems to check all the boxes (cost, personally designed curriculum, accredited). We'll see how that works out down the road. 

As for designing my own "school," I would definitely have multiple courses that could be taken individually or students could opt to take them for a Certificate. I would like to incorporate video lectures, writing assignments, flipped exams, discussion forums, and even possibly for Certificate students a requirement for them to use an electronic portfolio to document their work. 

Not sure how far down the rabbit hole I'll end up. But it definitely looks interesting and it would satisfy any need I might have to mentor others through my research interests if I can draw even a small crowd. 

We'll see.

[isaachunter]

Here is an example of what I'm looking for. Well, almost.

Winebrenner Theological Seminary is both Regionally and Nationally accredited. Although they do not have a PhD program (hence the almost) they do have a DMin program that is 31 credits w/ a dissertation (https://winebrenner.edu/doctor-of-ministry/).

Here's where it gets interesting.

You can attend this seminary for $300 / month tuition. That's right. Not per credit. It's per month. Very similar to NationsU which is basically $150 / month. For that $300 / month payment you can supposedly take as many courses as you want. If applying myself, I could theoretically take a course per month and finish in one year - $3600. For a regionally accredited doctorate.

Now for the bad news.

1. They require 3 years of ministry experience to be admitted into the program. They do offer alternative experience so I could theoretically qualify if they were so inclined.
2. They require you be actively involved in ministry at the time of admission and throughout the program (I do not qualify).
3. They require a MDiv from an ATS accredited school to be admitted (I only have an MTS from a DEAC accredited school). If they were willing to substitute the ATS for DEAC and accept the MTS degree with my additional credits, then I would meet their minimum of 51 credit degree. It just wouldn't be the MDiv per se.

From what I've seen from other seminaries, if they had a PhD program #1, 2 would not be a requirement at all. I do think I will send an inquiry to the school just to do my due diligence. But I really doubt if they would budge. Last Seminary I spoke with accepted my #1 alternate ministry experience and waived my #2 with explanation, but they were unaccredited. So you know how that goes.

So close, yet so very far away. ;-)

(UPDATE)

Very, VERY far away, indeed.

After digging into the fine print, the program limits you on the number of courses you can take per semester/per year. It ends up stretching out to 4 years and equals the exactly same price ($14k) as the 2 year PhD from Liberty. Plus the courses are synchronous/asynchronous hybrid - not truly online or at your own pace. In the manual they also specifically address the school is designed for people already in ministry. If you are not actively in ministry - no admittance. If you leave your ministry during the program you cannot continue taking courses until you get back into ministry.

Disappointing.