European International University

[ReyMysterioso]

"US Equivalency:
Bachelor of Business Administration Degree, Finance"

End of story.

[Sagan]

"Thanks for your input. According to your logic, a Royal Charter university without additional accreditation would also be "inferior," which is demonstrably false. Unless you're prepared to argue that your own UK degree is inferior by your own standard, your position is internally inconsistent."

This is a strawman argument. I neither said nor inferred any such thing. I said nothing about "additional accreditation," nor anything like it. This is disingenous.

"At this point, however, we're simply repeating ourselves rather than advancing the discussion."

Yes, that happens a lot when unaccredited schools are shilled. But that's okay. It's necessary so people less informed about these matters are not fooled into making a bad choice.

Unless I missed something, one NACES member--IEE--evaluated the ACBSP-accredited degrees successfully. But if you cannot use IEE, or if you do a program not covered by the ACBSP accreditation, you're out of luck.

"Sagan considers EIU to be substandard...."

No, not really. But its degrees are. That's not my opinion; that's an observable fact.

---

"US Equivalency:
Bachelor of Business Administration Degree, Finance"

End of story.

By whom? Whose conclusion are you describing?

[PearsonOTHMQualifi7654]

---

"US Equivalency:
Bachelor of Business Administration Degree, Finance"

End of story.

By whom? Whose conclusion are you describing?

He's referencing an IEE evaluation for the non-ACBSP BBA which seems to be getting overlooked.

My point is that just about any institution can be scrutinized and criticized depending on the criteria one chooses to emphasize. 

I don't consider my own Royal Charter degrees to be substandard, but someone else is certainly entitled to that opinion. 

My point is simply that objective facts and subjective judgments are two different things.

Regarding the IEE evaluation that keeps being referenced, I think there's still a misunderstanding.

The IEE evaluation I uploaded was not for the ACBSP-accredited BBA. I did not enroll in EIU's ACBSP-accredited program. I completed the non-ACBSP EIU-Paris BBA, and that is the degree I submitted to IEE for evaluation. I've shared the evaluation multiple times because this distinction continues to be overlooked.

My point isn't that everyone has to agree EIU is a great institution. Rather, it's that terms like "substandard" and "inferior" are evaluative judgments that depend on the criteria being applied. 

In this thread, you've described EIU degrees as "substandard." In another discussion, you described títulos propios as "inferior."

The underlying institutional facts may be objective, but concluding that a credential is therefore "substandard" or "inferior" is still an evaluative judgment.

[eLearner]

The typical school of this kind has no outside evaluations of it. No ACBSP, no ASIC, no government recognition. Nothing.

EIU has allowed themselves to be subjected to third-party scrutiny from several directions. Unaccredited schools that are substandard or looking to fleece people would never do that nor would they pass these third-party checks. EIU definitely has some things to fix, but I don't expect everything to be 100% there overnight, just as I wouldn't expect it from any other school that's still building.

[Sagan]

ASIC is irrelevant regarding the recognition of the school and its degrees. In fact, it can be misleading since "accreditation" means something very specific in the U.S.

ACBSP accreditation is normally meaningless as well, but it seems to get their business degrees by with one foreign credential evaluator. Not a ringing endorsement. If one does not do a degree covered by ACBSP, and if is not able to use IEE, it doesn't sound like a degree from this thing would be recognized in the U.S.

There is no reason to believe this school is "still building." Towards what? That would be quite noteworthy. Also, it is a tacit admission that it is not yet fully formed. So, what is missing that will someday be present?

[PearsonOTHMQualifi7654]

ASIC is irrelevant regarding the recognition of the school and its degrees. In fact, it can be misleading since "accreditation" means something very specific in the U.S.

ACBSP accreditation is normally meaningless as well, but it seems to get their business degrees by with one foreign credential evaluator. Not a ringing endorsement. If one does not do a degree covered by ACBSP, and if is not able to use IEE, it doesn't sound like a degree from this thing would be recognized in the U.S.

There is no reason to believe this school is "still building." Towards what? That would be quite noteworthy. Also, it is a tacit admission that it is not yet fully formed. So, what is missing that will someday be present?

Sagan, I think you might have missed a detail:

For the umpteenth time the IEE evaluation that was uploaded FOUR times on this forum, was for an EIU-Paris degree NOT covered by ACBSP. 

There have been multiple examples from EIU for non ACBSP covered degrees evaluated by IEE.

In other words, non-ACBSP EIU business degrees have been evaluated by IEE on multiple occasions. 

That is the specific point that has been made throughout this discussion. Whether you think that evaluation should carry much weight is a separate issue.
Accreditation in the United States generally refers to recognition by a private accrediting organization that has itself been recognized by the U.S. Department of Education (USDE) and/or the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA). Therefore, ACBSP is, by definition, a recognized form of U.S. accreditation. Whether someone considers it prestigious or not is a separate question. 

ASIC UK is a CHEA Listed Accreditor
ASIC UK is officially recognised by UK Visas and Immigration UKVI. 
Those are the facts, even if you say ASIC UK is insignificant and that ACBSP is third rate.

"Still building" means that EIU is continuing to pursue additional forms of external recognition for its programs. One example is seeking registration in the Répertoire National des Certifications Professionnelles (RNCP), which is France's National Directory of Professional Certifications.

[SteveFoerster]

There was a time when Steve Levicoff pressed hard to make a distinction between a degree mill and a diploma mill. (Generally speaking, these two terms are used interchangeably.) His definitions (my words):

Degree Mill: A substandard school that awarded less-than-wonderful credentials while still requiring some modicum of academic achievement.

Diploma Mill: A business selling fake degrees (and diplomas) to anyone ready with a payment.

The lines between these two concepts have been frequently blurred. And he was pretty inclusive regarding what could be a degree mill, including some accredited schools.

Still I think the terms are useful here. To wit: This thing--that has consumed 17 pages of inane rationalization and excuse-making--isn't a "diploma mill."

I've always thought that this was needlessly confusing considering that "substandard" will do just as well for the first category.

[NotJoeBiden]

There was a time when Steve Levicoff pressed hard to make a distinction between a degree mill and a diploma mill. (Generally speaking, these two terms are used interchangeably.) His definitions (my words):

Degree Mill: A substandard school that awarded less-than-wonderful credentials while still requiring some modicum of academic achievement.

Diploma Mill: A business selling fake degrees (and diplomas) to anyone ready with a payment.

The lines between these two concepts have been frequently blurred. And he was pretty inclusive regarding what could be a degree mill, including some accredited schools.

Still I think the terms are useful here. To wit: This thing--that has consumed 17 pages of inane rationalization and excuse-making--isn't a "diploma mill."

I've always thought that this was needlessly confusing considering that "substandard" will do just as well for the first category.

Not to mention very subjective.

[SteveFoerster]

Not to mention very subjective.

True, but that's okay, or at least inevitable. A lot of these conversations exist as if there were some sort of official worldwide academic legitimacy flowchart that always leads to GOOD FOR EVERYONE or BAD FOR EVERYONE when followed correctly, but there are a surprising number of schools out there where it's just not that simple and two people can disagree in good faith.

That's why "make sure it meets your current and foreseeable future needs" is probably the best advice this community ever developed.

[ReyMysterioso]

Indeed. And part of the benefit of this community is to identify potential shortcomings in educational solutions to meet those foreseeable future needs, which is why 17 pages worth of healthy debate are useful and valuable even when i may personally disagree with opinions.

Off topic, but there are some programs and fields of work that require a minimum of regionally accredited, graded credit hours for entry that my Big Three degree was inadequate for. Thus I now have over 125 RA credits and a second bachelor's. At the time I received the first one, I'd felt it was sufficient for my foreseeable needs. But my needs changed according to things I could not forsee. Could be EIU won't meet my future needs. That's a risk I'm willing take.