ENEB Master Thread

[eLearner]

Hard disagree...

So before I begin, it's important people know that on at least two boards you have made quite a few posts speaking ill of this program. You were one of the many early detractors speaking with certainty that the program would never get any favorable evaluations. However, several favorable evaluations have come out further substantiating the program's legitimacy and proving you wrong. Despite that, while most others have accepted defeat and moved on, your shots at the program have continued.

Hard disagree, because it's not the same as a 'regular' masters

That's an ambiguous characterization, it also most likely has no merit given the fact that there are and have been other project-based master's programs, some have even been independent study just like this one. What's 'regular' is open to wide interpretation. Some have argued that any master's (or any degree earned online) is not 'regular', so out the window goes every master's from every school including top-tier schools and those in the Ivy League. 

and obfuscating this fact crosses the line between painting yourself in the best light, and active deception.

What? No. Listing a credential as-written is the exact opposite of that. Doing something other than that is active deception.

This is one place where, if I as your friendly hiring manager had questions (and you were otherwise perfect to bring in for interview) and I didn't know what this titulo propio was, I'd simply google it and then decide if such a degree would be a problem for that position.

This is missing the point. Generally speaking, we are not Spanish, we are English-speakers in an English-speaking nation, and that's the first issue, so using "Titulo Propio" on your resume makes no sense for that reason, and for the second reason that it's not listed on the degree document. Can't say it enough, stick to what's on the document, there is no other perfect honesty outside of that and I'm mystified as to how that can even be debated.

(It may or may not be, depending on a lot of things, few of which you can predict from the outset.) I am more likely to google unfamiliar uni names, and given the first page results associated with this 'degree', this area is probably where you should be worrying.

With many thousands of people gainfully employed with degrees from schools that don't even exist, there isn't much to worry about by listing a degree from one that does. The only real worry is that someone competing for the job has a degree from a more recognized school and this is your highest credential so you lose out, but that happens often even with people who hold degrees from better recognized schools.

Frankly, if you've arrived at the final stage of the hiring process and your hiring manager discovers you've wasted their time, you won't get a chance to argue your case. Your hiring manager is not your mother, and the idea that you'll 'have to explain' is laughable. No hiring manager is going to waste their time following up. You'll get the standard 'thanks for interviewing, but we've decided to go in another direction' email (leaving you to wonder where it all went wrong - you'll likely never even know it was the ENEB degree which caused it) and be put on a list of people to absolutely never consider ever. If your (ex-)hiring manager is really PO'd or stressed after all this, you'll probably even be included in the Friday evening rant at the pub. And when you apply somewhere else next week, no doubt there'll be a text, one hiring manager to another: 'hey, they've applied here too. Lol.'

Any hiring manager that has gone that far without having made a determination on all of a candidate's qualifications sucks as a hiring manager and is used to wasting his/her own time with poor vetting skills.

Also, comments like 'the people in Spain' are a bit unpleasant and a simplistic way to regard an entire nation (which is made up of many individuals). 'The people in America' need to stop doing this.

I don't know what in the world you think you're doing there, but whatever you're implying with that is way off base, and honestly, weird. People who try to create an issue where there isn't one need to stop doing that.

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If this is the case, it makes a little more sense to me with them issuing a UI1 degree themselves. confused why they would do that without a transcript, but if that's the weird system they have for their programs in Spain, so be it. As long as there is a way UI1 lets you verify your degree with UI1, that makes sense to me.

I was confused about this too until I looked into how many schools they certify and how they do it. There is a common curriculum amongst all of the schools Isabel certifies, some are identical, so it suggests some oversight and approval of the programs by Isabel which isn't surprising. To add on, if they were to handle transcripts for all of the schools and all of the students connected to those schools it would be an impossible workload that would require an Amazon-like mega processing center, lol. For those reasons, it just makes sense to have each individually-certified school handle transcripts. Heck, ENEB alone has so many students that it takes them up to 60 days now to issue credentials. Imagine if Isabel handled that kind of workload for every school they certify. People would be getting their degrees years after completion.

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Thanks for the feedback. I am in fact listing my TESU degree that way, although I do appreciate the fact that "concentration in" is unnecessary. I threw the ENEB on there as an example, and would definitely want the formats to match.

I did some amateur googling. This website (https://www.ccelpa.org/como-se-hace-un-c...lum-vitae/) says that a titulo propio can go in the education or additional training sections, depending on what you want to highlight. This website (https://www.ceupe.com/blog/titulo-propio...iarlo.html) indicates that a titulo propio should not be held to be the same as a standard university master's degree (although they have a vested interest in saying that since they offer titulos oficiales). This thread (https://www.spaniards.es/foros/2013/09/0...ulo-propio) from 2013 runs the gamut, from calling it out as a non-Bologna degree to just calling it a Master's since that's what it is. Finally, for public/state jobs, titulos propios usually count as continuing education credits, or at least lesser than titulos oficiales.

I think I've come to see the titulo propio as the equivalent to a US nationally accredited degree, and I would not call attention to that on a resume. I think I would list this as just a Masters in Project Management in my education section, listed with ENEB. I don't think I would explain it any more, I don't think I would list an MBA from them, and I definitely wouldn't put Isabel I. Final answer!

Just remember that like education articles written by people here in America with a bias against nationally accredited degrees for example, you'll find similar slants from people in Spain with something against propios, so you'll find a number of questionable suggestions. To cut through the BS, just know that even top schools in Spain like UAB offer propios, and I can assure you that nobody is looking at them as just continuing education. For the most part, the propio is pursued by people in Spain because it's less expensive, and they know going in that savings comes with the limit of not being able to work in government or enter a Doctoral program.

I think I've come to see the titulo propio as the equivalent to a US nationally accredited degree

The comparison doesn't work in the U.S. context. An NA degree doesn't stop you from working in U.S. government or entering a U.S. Doctoral program the way a propio in Spain stops you from Spanish government work or entering a Doctoral program in Spain. Funnily enough, a propio from Spain used in America doesn't stop you from doing those things in America either. The other thing is, if you go to work in an official U.S. government position or try to enter a U.S. Doctoral program you'll more than likely be getting a foreign credential evaluation at some point, and it's at that point your propio will either be determined as equivalent to a U.S. regionally accredited credential or U.S. non-accredited, but never nationally accredited as--to my knowledge-- there are no evaluators who evaluate for NA equivalence.