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Best Computer Science degree?
#21
(01-20-2020, 03:16 PM)udi Wrote: I went back and checked my e-mail and they replied to me in May of 2019.

I'm happy to get into the weeds on this for a second and with great respect because I know that you have helped me more than once. I almost went to COSC for the Bachelor's in General Studies - Computer Science Concentration. I did not for the following two reasons:

1) The computer science concentration is not printed on the diploma. Neither is the major (general studies).
2) The major is general studies -- not computer science.

That's actually publicly available here: https://www.charteroak.edu/catalog/curre...bachelors/

COSC offers Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Science degrees in General Studies. If you get a bachelor's degree in general studies with any concentration, your diploma will either say:

"Bachelor of Arts"
or
"Bachelor of Science"

The major (general studies) and the concentration(s) are printed on the official transcripts.

Degree: Bachelor of Arts / Bachelor of Science
Major: general studies
concentration: computer science

Just an FYI, MANY schools (including TESU) only BA or BS on the diploma.  This is very common.  The diploma doesn't matter much though - because if a prospective employer wants something from you as "proof" of your degree, 99% of the time they will ask for the TRANSCRIPT, not your diploma.  The Transcript is the important part - it shows the courses you took and grades, as well as additional info on graduation (degree, major/minor/concentration and date awarded).
TESU BSBA/HR 2018 - WVNCC BOG AAS 2017 - GGU Cert in Mgmt 2000
EXAMS: TECEP Tech Wrtg, Comp II, LA Math, PR, Computers  DSST Computers, Pers Fin  CLEP Mgmt, Mktg
COURSES: TESU Capstone  Study.com Pers Fin, Microecon, Stats  Ed4Credit Acct 2  PF Fin Mgmt  ALEKS Int & Coll Alg  Sophia Proj Mgmt The Institutes - Ins Ethics  Kaplan PLA
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#22
here is charter oak
https://www.charteroak.edu/catalog/curre...tudies.php

36 credits in computer science are needed, at least 15 upper level

https://www.charteroak.edu/catalog/curre..._study.php

here is TESU
https://www.tesu.edu/heavin/ba/computer-science

39 credits in computer science are needed, at least 18 upper level

page 108 of the catalog
https://campussuite-storage.s3.amazonaws...log-ug.pdf

(01-20-2020, 07:28 AM)conexp Wrote: I've looked closely at WGU and I just can't get past this feeling that they're a degree mill.  

really ? I get the totally opposite feeling 

they have reddits so you can can see the experience of other students                

https://www.reddit.com/r/WGU_CompSci/

https://www.reddit.com/r/WGU/ 

THEY pay for the certifications you get as part of the degree

their terms are 6 months long compared to the usual 3 to 4 so it gives you more time to complete your classes 

they're regionally accredited        

they accept a lot of transfers from study.com

> Their marketing/web site just doesn't inspire confidence. 

really ?    
I love their website             
its clear, all the information is right there              
-- download the degree handbook and it contains all the courses and their definitions
-- they're very upfront about the costs 

you can go here and see what transfers                  
https://partners.wgu.edu/transferguidelines

most school websites you have to search for "tuition" and then you've got to look in 3 or 4 places  
and then its "if you're in state its this rate, if you're out of state its this rate, unless you're taking this many credits then its a totally different rate .. oh and don't forget lab fee, student fee, technology fee"  

WGU is totally different -- this is the cost
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#23
@udi I had a similar discussion over the "extension studies" degrees from Harvard Extension school.

You don't have to do the degree if you dont like, but stating COSC does not have a CS degree is misinformation.

The degree like I stated previously CAN be listed as "BS, concentration Computer Science". You WILL have studied a computer science degree and WILL be able to get into grad schools and jobs that require a CS education.

Employers dont ask for your diploma, they ask for the transcript and if they see 'computer science' as the concentration guess what you'll meet the requirement.

Apply to grad school and they see the concetration as computer science and they see 'calculus, linear algebra, data structures' and what not a typical CS program has guess what they will accept it as meeting the requirement as having a computer science education.

People go to school to get an education, and if your aim is grad school or a job that requires a computer science education, guess what that degree will meet the requirement.

About it being printed on the diploma thing, that is very rare.

I maintain my postion COSC does have a CS degree.

A "BS or BA, concentration Computer Science" is good for grad schools applications and employers.

I think if you are trying to pass off the BALS in CS from TESU as a CS degree then if would be stretching it. But with the Charter Oak degree, you'll be safe.
GRADUATE

MS Management, TESU (0/36)
Master of Theological Studies, Nations University (6/36)


UNDERGRAD : 184 Credits

BA Computer Science, TESU  '19
BA Liberal Studies, TESU  '19
AS  Natural Science and Mathematics, TESU  '19

Alt Credit:
StraighterLine (27 Cr)   Shmoop (18 Cr)  Sophia (11 Cr)
TEEX (5 Cr) Aleks (9 Cr)  ED4Credit (3 Cr) CPCU (2 Cr)   Study.com (39 Cr)

Colleges:
TESU (4 cr)
TT B&M (46 Cr)  Nations University  (9 cr)  UoPeople: (3 cr) Penn Foster: (8 cr)  

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#24
(01-20-2020, 07:28 AM)conexp Wrote: I've looked closely at WGU and I just can't get past this feeling that they're a degree mill.  Their marketing/web site just doesn't inspire confidence. I haven't ruled them out though... thanks for your input.

This is funny, and I'm thinking that you probably haven't looked at many university websites, because MANY of them are just TERRIBLE!!  It's like "hey, you have whole departments of people who are computer-minded, how about you let them take a crack at your awful website and improve it."  Seriously bad.

WGU's website is awesome - you can easily see what degrees they have, what courses each degree requires, and how much it will cost to go there.  Try finding THAT info on other colleges website - I guarantee you, there will be tons where you can't find a catalog of classes, can't find tuition, etc. without serious searching.
TESU BSBA/HR 2018 - WVNCC BOG AAS 2017 - GGU Cert in Mgmt 2000
EXAMS: TECEP Tech Wrtg, Comp II, LA Math, PR, Computers  DSST Computers, Pers Fin  CLEP Mgmt, Mktg
COURSES: TESU Capstone  Study.com Pers Fin, Microecon, Stats  Ed4Credit Acct 2  PF Fin Mgmt  ALEKS Int & Coll Alg  Sophia Proj Mgmt The Institutes - Ins Ethics  Kaplan PLA
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#25
(01-20-2020, 04:33 PM)dfrecore Wrote:
(01-20-2020, 07:28 AM)conexp Wrote: I've looked closely at WGU and I just can't get past this feeling that they're a degree mill.  Their marketing/web site just doesn't inspire confidence. I haven't ruled them out though... thanks for your input.

This is funny, and I'm thinking that you probably haven't looked at many university websites, because MANY of them are just TERRIBLE!!  It's like "hey, you have whole departments of people who are computer-minded, how about you let them take a crack at your awful website and improve it."  Seriously bad.

WGU's website is awesome - you can easily see what degrees they have, what courses each degree requires, and how much it will cost to go there.  Try finding THAT info on other colleges website - I guarantee you, there will be tons where you can't find a catalog of classes, can't find tuition, etc. without serious searching.

I agree... still, there's something about them that I can't put my finger on.  It doesn't help that I haven't found any great reviews of their CS program. A lot of people are like "well, I got the paper, and I was able to do it in less than a year... "  Happy to have my mind changed though.
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#26
(01-20-2020, 05:38 PM)conexp Wrote: I agree... still, there's something about them that I can't put my finger on.  It doesn't help that I haven't found any great reviews of their CS program. A lot of people are like "well, I got the paper, and I was able to do it in less than a year... "  Happy to have my mind changed though.

People like to brag about how fast they can complete degrees. Most of the people making those posts are people who already have experience in their field and are coming back to complete the degree as quickly as possible. Since WGU is a competency-based school, this allows those people to move very quickly through their degree programs. However, that doesn't really speak to the quality of the program since those people are not there to learn, they're there to complete the degree quickly and spend as little time as possible on new material. I know this because I did the same thing in my WGU degree. However, less than 2% of the WGU student body are accelerators (at least according to my academic mentor), so the majority of the people are taking a lot longer to complete their degrees. They just don't post to brag as much as the accelerators, which gives people a false impression of the WGU programs.

The WGU IT degrees, of which CS is one, generally have a pretty good reputation in the workforce. Particularly given they include industry certifications in addition to just passing the courses. Those certifications hold more value to some employers than any degree since they are a known quantity.

In terms of validity, I think WGU is the only university that has gained regional accreditation in four different regions simultaneously. WGU has also earned ACBSP, CAEP, CAHIIM, CCNE, NWCCU, and NCATE programmatic accreditation across their various degree programs. I am told that they are also working on getting ABET programmatic accreditation for their Computer Science program.

In any case, you may not like the approach the school takes, but WGU is not a degree mill by any definition. It is a legitimate higher learning institution that caters to working adult students who wish to go back to school to complete a degree. They do so by showing mastery of the various competencies that make up each degree rather than spending time in lecture halls. WGU is also one of the least expensive regionally accredited colleges, which allows people to pursue an education that might not otherwise have the financial capability to do so. It isn't for everyone though. People who are not good at self-directed study or who require handholding will not be successful at WGU and will be better off in a more traditional 4-year institution.
In Progress: Researching graduate degree programs
Up Next: Debating between picking up a second master's degree or starting on a doctorate

Complete:
MBA in IT Management, 2019, Western Governors University
BSBA in Computer Information Systems, 2019, Thomas Edison State University
ASNSM in Computer Science, 2019, Thomas Edison State University

B&M CC: 8.68cr, TESU: 3cr, CLEP/DSST: 15cr, Study.com: 57cr, Straighterline: 19cr, ALEKS: 9cr, TEEX: 6cr, The Institutes: 2cr, Sophia: 2cr
(121.68 credits total. 95 credits earned in 10 months, with 45 of those earned in ~3 months)
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#27
(01-20-2020, 05:38 PM)conexp Wrote: ... It doesn't help that I haven't found any great reviews of their CS program. A lot of people are like "well, I got the paper, and I was able to do it in less than a year... "  

their CS program has only been out for a little over a year I think 
so there haven't been that many graduates    
but you can check out the reddit

most of the people that do WGU have experience and are able to rush through courses 
they aren't interested in developing a deeper understanding -- they're interested in getting the degree to help them get promoted 

some people do start from scratch and so of course it takes them longer
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#28
(01-20-2020, 03:35 PM)dfrecore Wrote:
(01-20-2020, 03:16 PM)udi Wrote: I went back and checked my e-mail and they replied to me in May of 2019.

I'm happy to get into the weeds on this for a second and with great respect because I know that you have helped me more than once. I almost went to COSC for the Bachelor's in General Studies - Computer Science Concentration. I did not for the following two reasons:

1) The computer science concentration is not printed on the diploma. Neither is the major (general studies).
2) The major is general studies -- not computer science.

That's actually publicly available here: https://www.charteroak.edu/catalog/curre...bachelors/

COSC offers Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Science degrees in General Studies. If you get a bachelor's degree in general studies with any concentration, your diploma will either say:

"Bachelor of Arts"
or
"Bachelor of Science"

The major (general studies) and the concentration(s) are printed on the official transcripts.

Degree: Bachelor of Arts / Bachelor of Science
Major: general studies
concentration: computer science

Just an FYI, MANY schools (including TESU) only BA or BS on the diploma.  This is very common.  The diploma doesn't matter much though - because if a prospective employer wants something from you as "proof" of your degree, 99% of the time they will ask for the TRANSCRIPT, not your diploma.  The Transcript is the important part - it shows the courses you took and grades, as well as additional info on graduation (degree, major/minor/concentration and date awarded).

A general studies degrees is a degree in ... general studies. I have a degree in general studies and I regret it because people perceive it as having no expertise. Would a 'certificate' or 'major' or 'concentration' or 'minor' have fixed that? Maybe it would for some people. Maybe the algorithm would kick out the others and prefer whatever degrees others had with the expected verbiage.

I'm an American, but I work overseas, so that might have something to do with my sensitivity to this. I've seen people get their degrees (paper diplomas) rejected for the most unexpected reasons. (I've been working overseas for years). When you apply for a job in America and the background check is outsourced to India, do the people in India see the transcript? I don't know because I've never worked there. I have however had my background check done by people in India when I did everything right and it caused all sorts of problems (this was more then ten years ago).

In this particular scenario, for the COSC degree, even if the employer requests the transcripts, they're going to see that the major is in general studies. To me, this is a problem. There's a reason why all of these degree titles exist.

I have a question really quickly. What does your TESU diploma say? We know there's "Bachelor of Arts" and "Bachelor of Science", but is there also "Bachelor of Science in Business Administration"? I thought they would at least print that?
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Systems Analysis & Design ($70) | Discrete Math ($80) | Intro to Operation Systems ($80)

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#29
(01-21-2020, 01:58 AM)udi Wrote: In this particular scenario, for the COSC degree, even if the employer requests the transcripts, they're going to see that the major is in general studies. To me, this is a problem. There's a reason why all of these degree titles exist.

Regardless of the rest of the justifications, this is ultimately why I don't recommend that someone who wants a career in CS or software engineering pursue this degree. Most HR departments will verify academic credentials... this typically means pulling a transcript of some kind. I think most hiring managers would see that degree as a BA or BS in General Studies first and foremost. They may not even get to the concentration aspect of the degree unless some additional information was provided as part of the application (i.e., a cover letter or internal recommendation who can explain, etc.). Otherwise, they may see the CS concentration as a minor (basically the same as an AA/AS).

On the other hand, if someone put BSCS (which is what a BS with a concentration in CS will look like) on their application and the background check shows they have a BS in General Studies, I know a lot of people who would toss the application right there as it looks like the candidate is attempting to be misleading about their academic credentials. I'm sure it would not be hard to explain how the curriculum in the program is the same as a standard Bachelor's degree in CS, but I would imagine that they wouldn't be given the chance to explain unless it was clarified early on. And at that point, you might as well supply the correct degree name and major/concentration rather than have to justify it.

This all goes back to where I mentioned earlier that for anyone who seriously wants a CS degree, I recommend just getting a full CS degree (from TESU or WGU or where have you) and avoid the degree title justification dance altogether.
In Progress: Researching graduate degree programs
Up Next: Debating between picking up a second master's degree or starting on a doctorate

Complete:
MBA in IT Management, 2019, Western Governors University
BSBA in Computer Information Systems, 2019, Thomas Edison State University
ASNSM in Computer Science, 2019, Thomas Edison State University

B&M CC: 8.68cr, TESU: 3cr, CLEP/DSST: 15cr, Study.com: 57cr, Straighterline: 19cr, ALEKS: 9cr, TEEX: 6cr, The Institutes: 2cr, Sophia: 2cr
(121.68 credits total. 95 credits earned in 10 months, with 45 of those earned in ~3 months)
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#30
@udi nice job editing out that stuff you wrote earlier read it and wasnt even going to answer to that lol

@merlin It all depends on what you want to use it for. COSC, TESU and Excelsior arent really for the traditional college student, they are designed for working adults.

If your boss says to you 'you're doing a good job but get a cs bachelors degree ASAP for a promotion or to keep your job' as is the case for a lot of the forum users here and you do the COSC degree, you'll get the promotion or keep your job.

If you are applying to jobs that explicitly state you need a BS in CS, there are the 5% of employers who may not accept it. Then again there are the 5% who wont accept the TESU BA because its a "BA" and not a "BS" in CS.

If you want to go to grad school, I think the COSC program is a lot stronger than say the TESU program which lacks Calc II and Linear Algebra.

If I was applying to an EE program or even some CS grad programs that may work against me and someone with the COSC program might actually have the edge over someone who did the BA in CS from TESU.

The whole point of the discussion was to determine if COSC had a CS program, udi was insistant they did not...and justified if with stuff he edited out in his last post.

But as a hiring manager merlin would you accept someone with that degree for a CS postion?
GRADUATE

MS Management, TESU (0/36)
Master of Theological Studies, Nations University (6/36)


UNDERGRAD : 184 Credits

BA Computer Science, TESU  '19
BA Liberal Studies, TESU  '19
AS  Natural Science and Mathematics, TESU  '19

Alt Credit:
StraighterLine (27 Cr)   Shmoop (18 Cr)  Sophia (11 Cr)
TEEX (5 Cr) Aleks (9 Cr)  ED4Credit (3 Cr) CPCU (2 Cr)   Study.com (39 Cr)

Colleges:
TESU (4 cr)
TT B&M (46 Cr)  Nations University  (9 cr)  UoPeople: (3 cr) Penn Foster: (8 cr)  

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