Easiest and cheapest way to complete core curriculum?

[cookderosa]

This thread highlights the very important, and often overlooked, way to get MAXIMUM exam credit benefit: articulation. Yes, some folks are trying to test out of a degree, some folks are using distance learning, and some folks want accelerated learning, but for someone following a more traditional route, using a CC articulation first (where you get max CLEP use as well as cheaper tuition) into state university is really shaves big $$ and time. But remember, it's not the credits that matter, it's that you complete the block (certificate or degree) that is part of the guarantee.

[sanantone]

In the case of Texas, it's the 42-credit core (general education) or individual courses for specific subjects that are required to transfer by law. Whole associate's degrees are transferred through articulation agreements. CLEP3705's experience is that the universities will usually accept any core course even if you haven't completed the whole core, but the law only protects you, IIRC, if you complete the whole core.

[Tex]

This thread highlights the very important, and often overlooked, way to get MAXIMUM exam credit benefit: articulation. Yes, some folks are trying to test out of a degree, some folks are using distance learning, and some folks want accelerated learning, but for someone following a more traditional route, using a CC articulation first (where you get max CLEP use as well as cheaper tuition) into state university is really shaves big $$ and time. But remember, it's not the credits that matter, it's that you complete the block (certificate or degree) that is part of the guarantee.

The problem you run into, at least in my experience coming from a competitive public high school (TX) where everyone and their mom (literally) would constantly talk about what school so-and-so got into or was going next semester, is convincing 17/18-year old students to swallow their pride and defer going to UT - even though they got in but...but received no scholarship money - for a couple years to shave their loan/tuition costs significantly. We were all in high school once, wanting to impress our peers, and while most on this forum have the requisite maturity to stave off those temptations at this point in our lives, it's a big ask for a young kid who knows multiple people who are going to said state university, and also knows people going to the community college down the road who they turned their nose up at because of a perceived or real lack of intelligence and accomplishment on those students' part.

I totally agree with the theory behind your post by the way and I actively encourage students who I know can get into 4-year institutions but will receive very little to no non-loan aid, to knock out their courses at CCs nearby and through CLEP/DSST. Getting them to listen to that advice as they converse with their friends about their future plans in the high school hallways is a different matter altogether.

Obviously your post is meant for a specific group of students who are not only value-conscious, which is rare at that age, but also fit into a specific academic category and can easily see the "big picture." There are very few students coming out of high school who have a grasp of that or fit that profile, but I think forums like this being easily found through google is a step in the right direction.

[cookderosa]

The problem you run into, at least in my experience coming from a competitive public high school (TX) where everyone and their mom (literally) would constantly talk about what school so-and-so got into or was going next semester, is convincing 17/18-year old students to swallow their pride and defer going to UT - even though they got in but...but received no scholarship money - for a couple years to shave their loan/tuition costs significantly. We were all in high school once, wanting to impress our peers, and while most on this forum have the requisite maturity to stave off those temptations at this point in our lives, it's a big ask for a young kid who knows multiple people who are going to said state university, and also knows people going to the community college down the road who they turned their nose up at because of a perceived or real lack of intelligence and accomplishment on those students' part.

I totally agree with the theory behind your post by the way and I actively encourage students who I know can get into 4-year institutions but will receive very little to no non-loan aid, to knock out their courses at CCs nearby and through CLEP/DSST. Getting them to listen to that advice as they converse with their friends about their future plans in the high school hallways is a different matter altogether.

Obviously your post is meant for a specific group of students who are not only value-conscious, which is rare at that age, but also fit into a specific academic category and can easily see the "big picture." There are very few students coming out of high school who have a grasp of that or fit that profile, but I think forums like this being easily found through google is a step in the right direction.

I guess my post was meant for anyone that would find it helpful. I have 4 teenage sons, and don't take this the wrong way, but my husband and I are in charge of where we spend our money. Always have been, so there is no big fight to have- it's just a non-issue. In a million years, my kids wouldn't even consider pride as an argument. Now, my kids have been homeschooled, so peer pressure hasn't been an issue, however if my child opted for something that we didn't support (which is fine- I don't have an iron fist) then it would be on his dime. I'm totally okay with them setting their own path, but there's no way on this planet I'm paying lol.

[Kajkulahi]

I am doing this right now in Texas. I am doing an Associate's degree at my local community college which also covers the 42 credit general education core. I am doing this via in person and online classes at my CC as well as CLEPs. I will then transfer that 42 credit core block to a UT or A&M university. Each CC has their own institutional requirements of which CBEs you can take for credit and what percentage must be CC credits versus CBE credits. My CC only requires 12 institutional credits for the core. The rest can be institutional or CBE. I took 3 CLEPs this summer and earned 14 credits (my CC awards 8 credits for the Biology CLEP, not 6 as they award the lab credits also with a CLEP pass). The CLEP exam is $80 plus $25 for the testing fee at my college. $315/14 credits=$22.50/credit. I get in-state tuition of $128/credit at my CC but $22.50 just can't be beat. I wish I had known about CLEPs sooner as I had already taken some classes that I could have CLEPed out of. Look at your CC of choice's core requirements and credit by exam policies and then move forward from there. Since the core will transfer as a block you don't need to worry about UT's requirements regarding their core.

I plan on transferring for a bachelors degree, but earning an associates degree along the way doesn't seem bad. Would it effect my credits or anything? Since you're in Texas and doing this hands-on I'd like to ask a few questions.

Does the conventional community college let you give CLEP? I mean side-by-side along with other various courses? Is there any specific limit of credits you can do per semester?

Also, what confused me is that UT requires 60-credits to transfer whereas the community college says that 42-credits will replace your core curriculum at the university.

[clep3705]

Community colleges in Texas do allow CLEP/DSST/AP/IB credit by exam. Policies vary greatly. The most important thing is for the community college transcript to say Texas Academic Core Curriculum Complete or some slight variation on those words. With those words, the core curriculum will transfer in its entirety to a Texas public university. Having the actual associate's degree isn't necessary, although if you have that, you by definition are also core complete.

Odd things can happen to the core complete transfer student. A core complete student with 3 hours of math transferring to a university that requires 6 semester hours of math in a liberal arts program doesn't have to take an additional 3 hours of math. But if the student majors in science or engineering, more math will be required because those extra courses would be considered part of the major, not part of the core. If the community college accepts CLEP for a core course and the university doesn't, the university must accept the CLEP credit if the student is core complete. That's because it's no longer considered CLEP, but plain old transfer credit.

For those interested in cost, keep in mind that cost isn't just the number of credits and cost per hour, but how many calendar years does it take to get the degree. Having an associate's degree will probably shorten the time it takes to obtain a liberal arts degree at a university. But it might not do much or anything to reduce the number of years to complete what I call a sequential major. Sequential majors are architecture, business, computer science, and engineering. You have to take course 1 before course 2 which must be completed before course 3, etc. Those courses might not be available at a community college.

If you are suggesting that it is not possible to transfer into UT with 30 hours, are you sure? In general in Texas 30 hours is magic for transferring. Once the student has 30 hours, the student's high school grades and ACT/SAT scores are no longer considered.

[Kintsukuroi]

I plan on transferring for a bachelors degree, but earning an associates degree along the way doesn't seem bad. Would it effect my credits or anything? Since you're in Texas and doing this hands-on I'd like to ask a few questions.

Does the conventional community college let you give CLEP? I mean side-by-side along with other various courses? Is there any specific limit of credits you can do per semester?

Also, what confused me is that UT requires 60-credits to transfer whereas the community college says that 42-credits will replace your core curriculum at the university.

What clep3705 said is all correct.

Yes, community colleges give credit for CLEP. How much credit and which CLEPs they accept for credit is entirely CC specific. You can take CLEP along side other courses. I took mine during my summer break as I took the summer semester off as I did not have child care for my children but I could have taken them in addition to any summer classes I might have taken. Are you asking if there's a specific limit of CLEP credits allowed per semester or a limit on courses at the CC? A CC usually has a limit of 18 credits maximum per semester but any CLEPs you would take would not factor into that number. I don't see anywhere where UT says you need a minimum of 60 credits to transfer. The only thing I have seen is that you can transfer *no more* than 60 credit hours to UT as they require 60hrs of in residence instruction.

Which community college are you thinking of attending?

[Kajkulahi]

Community colleges in Texas do allow CLEP/DSST/AP/IB credit by exam. Policies vary greatly. The most important thing is for the community college transcript to say Texas Academic Core Curriculum Complete or some slight variation on those words. With those words, the core curriculum will transfer in its entirety to a Texas public university. Having the actual associate's degree isn't necessary, although if you have that, you by definition are also core complete.

Odd things can happen to the core complete transfer student. A core complete student with 3 hours of math transferring to a university that requires 6 semester hours of math in a liberal arts program doesn't have to take an additional 3 hours of math. But if the student majors in science or engineering, more math will be required because those extra courses would be considered part of the major, not part of the core. If the community college accepts CLEP for a core course and the university doesn't, the university must accept the CLEP credit if the student is core complete. That's because it's no longer considered CLEP, but plain old transfer credit.

For those interested in cost, keep in mind that cost isn't just the number of credits and cost per hour, but how many calendar years does it take to get the degree. Having an associate's degree will probably shorten the time it takes to obtain a liberal arts degree at a university. But it might not do much or anything to reduce the number of years to complete what I call a sequential major. Sequential majors are architecture, business, computer science, and engineering. You have to take course 1 before course 2 which must be completed before course 3, etc. Those courses might not be available at a community college.

If you are suggesting that it is not possible to transfer into UT with 30 hours, are you sure? In general in Texas 30 hours is magic for transferring. Once the student has 30 hours, the student's high school grades and ACT/SAT scores are no longer considered.

I guess the first two years of university/college are same for all no matter what the major is. Yes, my majors will hopefully be a sequential one. There are a few courses which are certainly not available at community college, but then again aren't all core curriculum's the same or kind of alike?

I want to transfer into 3rd year (junior year) at UT hence I want to complete my core curriculum prior to transfer.

What clep3705 said is all correct.

Yes, community colleges give credit for CLEP. How much credit and which CLEPs they accept for credit is entirely CC specific. You can take CLEP along side other courses. I took mine during my summer break as I took the summer semester off as I did not have child care for my children but I could have taken them in addition to any summer classes I might have taken. Are you asking if there's a specific limit of CLEP credits allowed per semester or a limit on courses at the CC? A CC usually has a limit of 18 credits maximum per semester but any CLEPs you would take would not factor into that number. I don't see anywhere where UT says you need a minimum of 60 credits to transfer. The only thing I have seen is that you can transfer *no more* than 60 credit hours to UT as they require 60hrs of in residence instruction.

Which community college are you thinking of attending?

Yes, I am asking whether there is a certain limit to how many CLEP's you can give. Some people whom I asked told me that you can't give CLEP courses while at a community college because it is somehow against their policy, you can only do the courses they offer to you.

Sorry about that, UT mentions that you cannot give more than 60 credits. As you need to do at least 60 credits from UT itself.

I plan on going to Austin Community College, they have a handful of campuses across Austin. Plus they're directly affiliated to UT.

[UptonSinclair]

I guess the first two years of university/college are same for all no matter what the major is.

Be careful with this assumption. The first two years of an engineering degree are very different from the first two years of a liberal arts degree at my local university.

[clep3705]

Yes, I am asking whether there is a certain limit to how many CLEP's you can give. Some people whom I asked told me that you can't give CLEP courses while at a community college because it is somehow against their policy, you can only do the courses they offer to you.

Do not base your decisions for your life on what someone tells you.
Do not base your decisions on what I tell you.
Do not base your decisions on what you read in this forum.
Do not base your decisions on what an advisor at your school tells you.

Read your school's general catalog and thoroughly educate yourself on the rules.

You can download Austin Community College's general catalog from here: Austin Community College Catalog | Austin Community College District

I advise downloading it because I wasn't able to search it online. Searching the downloaded copy reveals this on printed page number 23 (page 24 according to my pdf reader):

"Credit by Examination: Non-Institutional Credit You can earn up to 30 coursework credits through noninstitutional credit-by-exam programs such as Advanced Placement (AP), the College Level Examination Program (CLEP), International Baccalaureate (IB), and Certified Professional Secretary (CPS). Of that total, only 24 credits from IB and 24 credits from CPS are accepted."

I recommend to all Texas students do not take the American Government CLEP because two government courses are in the Texas core and schools do not agree on which of the two courses the CLEP test gives credit for. I also advise caution with the CLEP Information System and Computer Applications exam because it may not transfer. Some universities consider it a "workforce" course, something I have no need to research. The marketing CLEP might fall into the "workforce" category. But don't take my word for this. It's your life and you need to research the rules for your situation.

Going back to what UptonSinclair and I have said about the first two years of college NOT being the same for all majors: Depending on the major at the university, you could transfer in to the university as a junior and still need four full years to complete certain majors. Going from liberal arts at the community college to STEM or architecture is likely to take longer than two years at the university. Certain STEM majors and even some business majors have to start taking specific courses in the major beginning in the first semester of college in order to graduate in four years. Find out all of the rules that apply to you.