Homemade Pre-Med program

[publius2k4]

I have been searching for a couple of years for a program that will allow a student to complete the Pre-Med requirements (listed as being 1 year of biology, one year of physics, two years of chemistry, and one year of English, according to the American Association of Medical Colleges). Because no such program exists (other than South University's super expensive BA in Health Studies) I decided to compile the list myself. I listed these courses in the Big 3 thread, because presumably the student would use one of the Big 3 as their "home" school. (I also left out the English requirement, because presumably, the student using these courses would take the CLEP, which counts for 1 year of English Study at most schools).

Please feel free to critique and help me change this to make it more accurate. This method will not necessarily get you into medical school, but it will give you a fighting chance!


Anyway, the courses I believe would meet these requirements are:

BYU
NURS 102: NURSING AND MEDICAL TERMINOLOGY
BIO 100: PRINCIPLES OF BIOLOGY
MMBIO 221: GENERAL MICROBIOLOGY
PDBIO 205: HUMAN BIOLOGY
HLTH 345: PRINCIPLES OF EPIDEMIOLOGY


Clovis Community College
General Chemistry 1 w/ Lab
General Chemistry 2 w/ Lab

Calcampus
SH328 Biochemistry
SH311 Introductory Organic Chemistry
SH330 Anatomy & Physiology I (4 credits)
SH331 Anatomy & Physiology II (4 credits)

University of Idaho Independent Study
Phys111: General Physics 1
Phys112: General Physics 2





Thoughts? Suggestions? Questions?

[mm1988]

That is good information. The only issue would be the physics and biology component. Most medical schools require a lab, so you would need one year of biology and physics with a lab. Additionally, a year of organic chemistry with a lab is hard to find online. A good source for these credits online would be:

ISP - Accelerated College Science Program Courses and Classes, Learn Science in Months Not Years

The certificate program offers all of the courses you need for pre-med, or you can take individual courses. Each courses runs around $2080, so it is pretty expensive. Especially, since medical schools may or may not accept the preq courses being done online.
It would be a smarter idea to find a local university or community college, and do all the pre-med courses actually in seat. After you do the pre-med courses, then you can transfer them to one of the big three and possibly test out of the rest of your degree.

[Jonathan Whatley]

Calcampus does not offer accredited degree-level college credit. They're regionally accredited but only on the K-12 and non-degree "postsecondary" – but non-credit, adult education – levels, by the by the North Central Association Commission on Accreditation and School Improvement (NCA CASI), which operates primarily at the K-12 and additionally at the non-degree postesecondary, level, not by the North Central Association Higher Learning Commission (NCA HLC) which operates at the degree-granting level.

The big four, one-year-each core science sequences must include substantial lab components. Some medical schools will accept distance learning labs, some schools will not. The University of Idaho physics and BYU biology courses here don't even have distance learning labs and as such are ruled out.

Also, generally, a student can't just take say Principles of Biology (one-semester course) and Human Biology (one-semester course) and call that a qualifying one-year sequence in biology, or Biochemistry and Introductory Organic Chemistry and call that a qualifying one-year sequence in organic chemistry.

Basically, the biology department at an undergraduate college will have a specific general biology sequence intended to qualify for medical school admissions, the chemistry department will have specific general and organic chemistry sequences, etc. Medical schools should essentially always accept these. Meanwhile, other courses from the biology, chemistry, etc. departments won't meet the basic prerequisites.

A one-semester course, not necessarily with lab, in Biochemistry is becoming a prerequisite or highly recommended at an increasing number of medical schools. The major revision to the MCAT after January 2015 will include significantly more biochemistry.

Several courses listed above, like Medical Terminology, above are good to have but rarely or never prerequisites for medical school. Nursing and allied health programs are more likely than medical schools to require medical terminology, anatomy & physiology, etc.

[clep3705]

"In certain circumstances a limited amount of online course work not required for the major and not a prescribed course for application to medical school may be considered." The University of Texas Health Science Center - School of Medicine

"It is NOT recommended that any of the required prerequisite courses be taken through an online course. Any courses taken online to fulfill the required prerequisites MUST be pre-approved by the Assistant Dean for Admissions. Students must also demonstrate a compelling need to take the course online as opposed to in class course. All requests will be considered on a case-by-case basis." Translation: That is academic speak for you've got to be kidding. Office of Student Admissions : UNM Health Sciences Center

"Biochemistry is the only prerequisite that may be completed online due to the lack of a laboratory requirement." Prerequisites - MD - Mayo Medical School - Mayo Clinic

"Online courses will be considered on a case-by-case basis and preference will be given to applicants who have done the majority of their preparation at the senior college level." Don't count on it. FAU - About Admissions to the College of Medicine

"The OSU College of Medicine and the Admissions Committee prefer that courses be completed in a classroom setting. However, the Committee will consider online coursework as fulfilling our listed prerequisites for lecture courses only (not laboratory courses)" How do you think online courses from a mediocre community college compare to courses taken in person at a top tier university? There are lots of superqualied people applying. Prerequisites

"Since many prerequisite courses include a laboratory requirement, online courses will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis." Translation: We will review your online science courses that have labs in a fair manner and pick someone else. Ask OU - Medical School Admissions - Oakland University

"In some cases, the UC Irvine School of Medicine does accept online courses for prerequisites. We do not accept online laboratory courses for any prerequisites." FAQs | Admissions | Medical Education | School of Medicine | University of California, Irvine

"The College of Medicine will accept off-campus/online courses which are offered through an accredited university to fulfill some of the premedical course requirements; however, a bachelor’s degree in residence is required." University of Iowa Carver College of Medicine

"In general, courses taken on-line will not be accepted to fulfill WCMC admissions requirements. Exceptions can be considered on a case-by-case basis. In these instances, the applicant should provide evidence that the coursework is rigorous." They have thousands of applicants. They don't need to accept the applicant who took online courses from a community college. Medical Education at Weill Medical College of Cornell University | Admissions

"Online coursework is not accepted in fulfillment of prerequisites." Admissions - Requirements

"On-line or correspondence coursework is not accepted." Requirements - Admissions*- LSUHSC School of Medicine

"The University of Toledo Medical School Admissions does not accept virtual online lab courses." The University of Toledo - Medical School Admission

"Online courses and community college courses are not acceptable...CLEP credits may not be substituted for any course requirement" Prerequisites and Requirements| Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine M.D. Admissions

"All science courses used to satisfy a prerequisite must include a laboratory component, so online coursework will not be acceptable to substitute for hands-on lab credit" http://www.rowan.edu/coopermed/students/...isites.php

"Although traditional face-to-face courses are required for the prerequisites, we will consider higher-level coursework taken on-line as a substitute for prerequisites older than 10 years. Please keep in mind traditional face-to-face courses may be viewed as more competitive than on-line courses.

On-line education courses, although meeting some programs’ requirements, do not always translate into a “highly competitive” application. Many programs, including Tufts, look at the overall rigor of a college’s curriculum as well as the student’s individual grade when considering applicants." http://publichealth.tufts.edu/Academics/...%20Courses

"Science courses taken must be designated for science majors. Please note: Distance learning or online courses obtained through accredited institutions in the U.S. are recognized to meet the prerequisite requirements. Courses requiring laboratory sections cannot be completed online." https://www.bcm.edu/pap/prerequisites

"CLEP, exempt, correspondence courses, or online courses cannot be used to satisfy the pre-matriculation requirements." http://www.uams.edu/com/comcat/2012-2013...licant.pdf

"Coursework must be taken in a traditional classroom setting. Online courses, CLEP and IB are not acceptable to fulfill the prerequisites." http://www.usuhs.mil/medschool/somadmiss...ments.html

"Since most prerequisite courses include a laboratory component, courses taken on-line will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. The laboratory component should not be taken online." http://medicine.fiu.edu/admissions/md/faq/

Read the research on how medical schools actually view online courses: The Acceptability of Online Courses as Criteria for Admission to Medical School

More research: https://www.aamc.org/download/277172/dat...isites.pdf

This plan does not give you a fighting chance. Medical school admission is extremely competitive and medical schools aren't going to waste their time with online community college students. There is a big difference between courses acceptable for an application and the courses that the accepted applicants actually took.

[Jonathan Whatley]

Most medical schools require a lab, so you would need one year of biology and physics with a lab.

Yep! One year each of biology, physics, general chemistry, and organic chemistry, each with labs.

Additionally, a year of organic chemistry with a lab is hard to find online. A good source for these credits online would be:

ISP - Accelerated College Science Program Courses and Classes, Learn Science in Months Not Years

The certificate program offers all of the courses you need for pre-med, or you can take individual courses. Each courses runs around $2080, so it is pretty expensive.

Not online. Face-to-face classes on weekends with exams weekday nights.

Also, last I checked in 2012, the school that transcripts these wasn't accredited to offer any degree programs at the undergraduate level. It's primarily a chiropractic school. What does this make credits it issues at the undergraduate level? These may not count as unambiguously accredited degree-level credit in every situation. A poster on studentdoctor.net found that some dental schools reported that they would accept prerequisites from the ISP program, but some would not. Taking prerequisite at Southern California University of Health Sciences (SCU) (forums.studentdoctor.net).

Especially, since medical schools may or may not accept the preq courses being done online.

Yep.

[sanantone]

For the medical schools that might be open to online courses, I'll go through some potential problems with your plan. Usually, Bio 1 and Bio 2 with lab for science majors are required. I don't think human biology will fulfill one of those requirements. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think epidemiology is usually a prerequisite. Cookderosa's favorites are Ocean Community College and University of New England. I believe University of New England's courses have virtual labs while Ocean Community College has physical labs that are done in the home. University of New England does give a list of schools that have accepted their courses, but the virtual labs will limit your options. UC Berkeley also offers a lot of online biology courses. New Mexico Junior College offers A&P I and II, but I think their online biology courses are only for non-science majors. Another place to find science courses online is the eduKan system.

University of New England's Post Baccalaureate Sequence. They are really expensive, the sequence does not qualify for financial aid, and there is no payment plan.
University of New England - COM - Online Education - Post Baccalaureate Sequence - Home

Azusa Pacific's Pre-Nursing Certificate. It kind of sucks.
Pre-Nursing Health Science Certificate - Azusa Pacific Online University

Rio Salado College
Online Nursing Programs | Online Nursing | Rio Salado College | Rio Salado College

You can probably find some more options discussed at Value MD.
International, Foreign & Caribbean Medical Schools – Ratings, Reviews & Requirements | ValueMD

[cookderosa]

Here's the thing about that group of sciences, earning an "A" is expected- period. So, I'm going to assume that anyone jumping in is already up to the challenge of doing "A" work- so my comment isn't about the "grade" from the class. The goal- it's that you develop an intuition far and above what might typically be required in any class you'd taken. Seriously, to be frank, I'm an "A" student and I don't bother with half the crap they assign (counting my entire Kindergarten-Master career). If it's un-interesting, full of trivia, and irrelevant, odds are I'm skimming. That attitude doesn't fly in the pre med sciences (which is why I'm out- I know what it "would" take for me to get there, and I could do it in a different life, but not in the one I'm living). You need to have serious-hard core- live/eat/breath understanding of the subjects that comprise the MCAT. I've read students over on StudentDoc with degrees in biology who don't score highly in the biology section!

Know this: you can be a 4.0 GPA science student and the MCAT will eat you. It's the ultimate leveling agent. Grade inflation, cheating, open book tests.... in one quick swoop.... take you out. BRIGHT PEOPLE still don't get into med school. Bright, 4.0 students get rejected every day.

So, in my OPINION a piece-meal approach is a terrible idea. Distance learning is less than ideal. You need lots of lab time, lots of problem solving time. Lots of interaction with your professor and others. Lots of homework and lots of face time in a place full of competitive bright minds. You need *time* to marinate and develop critical thinking skills. It is also my opinion that if you're traditional age, you need to do a traditional program. Non-trads can do a non-trad program if they can sell it. You need a story that justifies taking a different path. Remember, you can do everything right, and still be turned away, so any indication that you did *less* than what the others next to you are doing, and it's no-go.

Invest the TIME and MONEY carefully. You're only doing it once, make it count. It's a brutal process.
(p.s. every class you've EVER taken will be on your application, including courses you've withdrawn from or repeated)

[Jonathan Whatley]

For the medical schools that might be open to online courses, I'll go through some potential problems with your plan. Usually, Bio 1 and Bio 2 with lab for science majors are required. I don't think human biology will fulfill one of those requirements.

Correct. It's conceivable that a course in Human Biology might be part of a qualifying sequence as set up by a college. However, almost all courses titled "Human Biology" are going to be general survey courses outside of the universe of qualifying premedical bio sequences.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think epidemiology is usually a prerequisite.

Yep, it isn't. (It is a good thing to have and I do like BYU IS's epidemiology course.)

Cookderosa's favorites are Ocean Community College and University of New England. I believe University of New England's courses have virtual labs while Ocean Community College has physical labs that are done in the home.

UNE's DL lab courses have either virtual or physical labs, varying by course. For UNE Physics I, students purchase a dynamics track kit. This costs $1000! With a $500 refund available after the complete kit is returned. FAQ (UNE COM Online Education).

[Jonathan Whatley]

Here's how specific med schools can be about these prerequisites.

I'm taking General Chemistry I at Harvard Extension School at Harvard University this semester. My lab partner took AP Chemistry in high school for college credit, General Chemistry I at the Ivy League college where she earned her bachelor's degree, and Organic Chemistry I and II at HES last year. She's also taken standard premedical biology and physics sequences, and she's applying to medical schools this year.

She is outstanding. She's been accepted to one U.S. MD school already and interviews or are pending with or replies pending from a good number more.

However, meanwhile, she's still finishing up this General Chemistry prerequisite with newbies like me.

Why? AP Chemistry doesn't count. Having taken the higher-level organic chemistry courses doesn't count against the general chemistry requirement. General Chemistry I from her first college doesn't really do anything without part two of the sequence. Different schools split up their sequences differently, and one school may change how they divide it year to year… The best way for her to clearly meet the requirement was to start a qualifying general chemistry sequence one more time from square one.

[sanantone]

I'm sure UNE will accept its own courses, but their fees are outrageous. Don't forget about the DO programs; they might be more open to online courses than MD programs.