Obama's plans for College Tuition

[Professor_Adam]

Active duty liberal who voted for Obama here. It was a close race (relatively speaking), but a greater difference in comparison to the past two pervious elections. The military is as diverse as anything else.

As to the planned changes to the education system, I'm definitely watching it closely. I appreciate the opportunities I get because of being in the military, but education should be more accessible to everyone. This definitely isn't the lifestyle for everyone.

May you live in interesting times. One hell of a curse there...

The military is very diverse and that's one of the things I love about it. I agree with you that "education should be more accessible to everyone." And that's one of the reasons I started this post. Regardless of the election, my point is that we need solutions and new ways of thinking about some of these critical issues.

Tuition is becoming just like the health care crisis in this country in the sense that costs seem to be spiraling out of control -- with few effective measures to curb them.

[thatbrian]

The very reason that education and health care have increased in cost is all of this "free" money. It's supply and demand at work. By government interference in the process, they have artificially increased the cost. Just like giving a mortgage to anyone with a pulse made housing prices go through the roof. If you want to see prices come down, then you need to stop all of the free rides. Throwing more tax dollars at this will only raise costs.

You want to go to college - pay for it yourself. No one deserves a free college eduction.

The military is very diverse and that's one of the things I love about it. I agree with you that "education should be more accessible to everyone." And that's one of the reasons I started this post. Regardless of the election, my point is that we need solutions and new ways of thinking about some of these critical issues.

Tuition is becoming just like the health care crisis in this country in the sense that costs seem to be spiraling out of control -- with few effective measures to curb them.

[Professor_Adam]

The very reason that education and health care have increased in cost is all of this "free" money. It's supply and demand at work. By government interference in the process, they have artificially increased the cost. Just like giving a mortgage to anyone with a pulse made housing prices go through the roof. If you want to see prices come down, then you need to stop all of the free rides. Throwing more tax dollars at this will only raise costs.

You want to go to college - pay for it yourself. No one deserves a free college eduction.

Again, if you read my previous posts, you'll notice I never advocated anyone getting a free college education. There is BIG difference between incentives and a free lunch. I'm not sure why people keep responding with the same blanket answer.

Is everyone against incentives too? The debate here is not --- and never was -- about getting a completely free education. The debate is over how to overcome the high cost of tuition while continuing to provide incentives for people to seek higher education.

The blanket argument everyone keeps using here is invalid for several reasons. All businesses receive tax incentives. Homeowners receive tax incentives. The self-employed have their tax incentives. There are various tax credits and write-offs that cover the gamut of our entire economy and way of living in the United States. Some of those here who are railing against government intervention no doubt enjoy tax breaks and incentives in their own lives. Why are people against incentives and tax credits for those seeking college education? What's the difference?

[Gary]

Well I didnt' mean for this to get political. I was really much more interested in the high cost of tuition, see this story The Secret Reasons for Tuition Hikes - Yahoo! News, and what solutions are currently on the table to address it.

Does anyone have better ideas?

This is a great post. I am truly amazed at how people cannot see what has just happened in this country. The rich (who in many instances are no smarter than you or I), are finding loopholes that in many instances were created for them. THEY are getting wealthy and the middle class is paying for it. Look at the distribution of wealth in America, your kidding me, right? Look at how much minorities have been screwed in this country. If you think your a Republican, I hope your making quite a bit of dough because if your not, they've screwed you too. I mean, I sometimes can't believe how people think in this country. I am white but I can see it. The threat is coming from above, not below, but it will be. Keep enough people down and you will see the riots they had in Paris, France right here in this country! You must be using dry humor in reverse on me, right? In NJ, Superintendents of schools (of which we have 616 districts, more than Maryland, Delaware and Virginia combined) make close to or at least $185,000.00 a year w/numerous perks on top of that. We haven't touched on assistants or support personnel. This is not a NJ problem, open up eyes wide, these people are not worth that. Heck, the president barely makes that, at least in salary. I like a good joke, this is Aprils Fools, right? C'mon, there are so many talented people out there that will be out of work a long time, I suppose they don't want to work either. More of a drain on the system. GREED, pure and simple is bringing this country down. Read up on H-1B visas and see what is really happening. There is no doubt there are freeloaders in the system and that needs correction. We need to keep illegal aliens out, we should be taking care of our own 1st. I think, the system needs fixing. No, I know this system is screwed, look at what is happening to the vets.......while this frickin VP has ties with corrupt Halliburton. I'm not a Democrat either because they're becoming useless also. I'm a disgruntled American who thinks the trickle down theory is a bunch of garbage. You can give the elitist their due if you wish, I prefer to think of many of them as Prima donnas. Don't look now, your country is falling apart. Don't blame people for wanting the dream of home ownership, blame the bank execs for authorizing it with rates they new could never repay in the event of a blip. Those are our great minds at work. Do we hold them accountable? They make enough, don't you think they shoulder a huge responsibility for this or do they get a waiver? Back to the original statement, every American should be able to live the dream, and if college or trade school is their desire, $$$ should be made available. Heck, you want money for school, why don't we make it mandatory that every person serve in the armed forces? Give me because it's a free country argument and my reply is, how do you think we became free? Somebody's gotta do it, why not everybody who is physically capable? There is not a CEO out there worth the money they are getting, PERIOD! Without a workforce, there isn't any work. President Obama and his team at least acknowledge something needs to get done in this area. That much is commendable. Man.........this is an educational website, isn't it?

[Farmerboy]

It's about time someone is giving hope to the unfortunate! The community service thing is a good idea. Everyone should be entitled to college if they so choose. They don't have to take it from taxpayers at the lower end. Take it from the corrupt CEO's who are grossly overpaid and underperforming. I don't know about you all but in my way of thinking, financial and corporate America have stolen enough dreams!

Adam,
I don't think people are stirred by what you said as much as by this post. However in your initial post you mentioned that the government was going to provide free community college for all. Between the two many eyebrows have been raised!

[thatbrian]

There is BIG difference between incentives and a free lunch.

There is? Where? It's something for nothing, and you are right it's not free - I am paying for it. Me and all taxpayers are paying for the "free" stuff that liberals give away to buy votes.

[Law-Dude]

Again, if you read my previous posts, you'll notice I never advocated anyone getting a free college education. There is BIG difference between incentives and a free lunch. I'm not sure why people keep responding with the same blanket answer.

Is everyone against incentives too? The debate here is not --- and never was -- about getting a completely free education. The debate is over how to overcome the high cost of tuition while continuing to provide incentives for people to seek higher education.

The blanket argument everyone keeps using here is invalid for several reasons. All businesses receive tax incentives. Homeowners receive tax incentives. The self-employed have their tax incentives. There are various tax credits and write-offs that cover the gamut of our entire economy and way of living in the United States. Some of those here who are railing against government intervention no doubt enjoy tax breaks and incentives in their own lives. Why are people against incentives and tax credits for those seeking college education? What's the difference?

Yes! The use of centrally-planned income control to influence certain lifestyle choices is a gross abuse of the government's power to raise revenue for services essential to good government, such as keeping a standing army and a criminal justice system.

The entire income tax system should be repealed so that politicians can no longer use it to plan their ideal economy. Let individuals be responsible for creating their own wealth and choosing what to do with it, instead of being coerced through a heavily manipulated income tax system to purchase houses or get college degrees.

Pointing out an inconsistency in argument regarding other income tax incentives doesn't exactly work against those of us who oppose the income tax itself.

[dc67]

[SIZE="4"]freetax.org[/SIZE]

[Gary]

There is? Where? It's something for nothing, and you are right it's not free - I am paying for it. Me and all taxpayers are paying for the "free" stuff that liberals give away to buy votes.

You can pay for it now or you will pay for it later. As for conservatives, aren't they the party that advocated family values that everyone spread their arms around.........you know as the parties leaders practiced just the opposite. The man has a plan, more than the bonehead had that got us into this mess had. I can guarantee, that clown didn't get my vote. So much for that party, the one that wanted an airhead as a "voice"! Whew. By the way, here's a snack. Class is in, pay attention:Reviewing nearly 30 years of research, the Treasury reported: "Children from disadvantaged backgrounds are much less likely to succeed in education... On 'difficult to let' estates, one in four children gain no GCSEs (the national average is one in twenty) and rates of truancy are four times the national average... There is considerable evidence that growing up in a family which has experienced financial difficulties, damages children's educational performance...

"The differences between advantaged and disadvantaged children are apparent from a very early age. At 22 months, children whose parents are in social classes one or two are already fourteen percentage points higher up the educational-development distribution than children whose parents are in social class four or five.... The data from the National Child Development Survey show that there is a strong relationship between children's performace in maths and readings tests between the ages of six and eight, and their parents' earnings, with the children of higher earning parents performing better... If one father's earnings are double the level of another, his son's maths test score is on average five percentile points higher than the other's... Going to school does not reduce the differences in early development between advantaged and disadvantaged children."

The link is strong. It is also central to the experience of Britain's schools because, as the same Treasury document confirms, poverty in Britain has trebled since 1979 to the point where a third of Britain's children - more than four million of them - now live below the poverty line. This torrent of poor children poured into the classroom at exactly the same time as standards of behaviour and achievement slumped. Our levels of pupil failure are higher than most of the rest of the developed world, but our levels of child poverty also are higher than most of the rest of the developed world. According to Eurostat, for example, 32% of children in the UK live in poor households, compared to 20% in the rest of the European Union. According to Treasury figures, we have higher poverty levels than Greece and Portugal.

The physical, emotional and social damage which is inflicted on children who live in poverty, is clearly reflected in the latest academic results. The independent group, Research and Information of State Education, trawled through Ofsted reports and matched the standards of students against the number who were claiming free school meals, the nearest available measure of poverty in the classroom. In schools with only a few poor children, one in every five pupils was scoring Grade 1; at the other end of the spectrum, in schools with a well above average number of children on free school meals, only one in a hundred was doing so.

A disadvantaged intake can make life tough for a whole school, not just for individuals. Researchers at Durham University looked at schools which have been failed and subjected to 'special measures' by Ofsted and then matched them against the six bands of disadvantage which are used by the Department of Education to reflect the proportion of pupils on free meals. Not one of the schools in special measures fell in any of the three 'affluent' bands. A small group fell close to the national average, but almost all of them - 96.5% - were in the two upper bands, schools with a proportion of children on free meals which is clearly above the national average.

The evidence goes on and on - from the US, from the OECD, from the EU. There are literally dozens of academic studies which confirm the link between poverty and academic failure. But in the Department of Education, anxious to deliver policies which appear to have a chance of short-term success, the new orthodoxy remains the same. "Poverty is no excuse."
[B]Like I said, you can continue down this path, look at the consequences. The poor are definitely disadvantaged, there is nothing wrong w/assistance to help one out of a rut. If education is so great and wonderful, why not try to give those a small push, it might benefit us all. To seriously look at our financial situation, look at SS, Medicare, Medicaid and pensions that have been ridiculously drawn from. We keep hearing about pension reform, yet no one forwards any changes. People live longer, that's a fact. Apparently it's the poor, sick people that are responsible for this mess. Look at the pharmeceutical companies. They play a large role in the rising health care costs. How many know of nurses, (don't tell me you don't know any, because there are plenty out there) that are paid 40 hrs for working (3) 12 hr shifts. It goes on and on. You can blame the poor if you want, but who is driving into their neighborhoods and buying drugs. In many instances, those well off, high falootins who obviously have too much money to waste on such things. Are you all really conservatives (Republicans), or is it much more than that! Class is out!

[kilanath]

I honestly think that many people need to take a course on Federal Taxation. Beyond being extremely complicated, it is informative. Many myths about who's getting a free-ride and the best tax benefits, et cetera, exist.

I have no interesting way of lowering tuition.

I receive financial aid, including loans. I personally do not pay taxes. I have no job. Without the FAFSA, I would not receive help with tuition. I have paid taxes, and currently my fiance pays taxes and works to keep my household expenses paid so that I may attend college. I'm not particularly worried about paying tuition, I'm more worried about paying back the loans. I do not expect a free-ride, and would accept the responsibility of paying back more in loans. The FAFSA is on the other hand, unnecessarily complicated.

I plan to save money for my children to be able to receive higher education.

And as for my own personal political point of view: I'm of the opinion that a good way to reduce government spending is to reduce congressional pay. Why? Because they receive quite a nice salary for doing very little.