Very Confused....Excelsior W.E.R.????

[mlwilliamsiv]

Hello Everyone.

I've been on the phone for about an hour and a half trying to figure out a way to best satisfy this WER at Excelsior and satisfy the requirements of my local community college.

Just to give you some background information, my local cc is on the quarter hour system and I need 6 quarter hours (3 ENG 111 & 3 ENG 112) to satisfy the requirement for my AAS in Paralegal Studies. And Excelsior requires 3 semester hours for their WER.

My predicament lies in the financial arena because I'm going to have to pay out of pocket for these classes. I'm hoping to use my financial aid to pay my enrollment fees at Excelsior (hopefully).

I called my local cc and they will let me take the CLEP Freshman English Composition (without essay) and if I score a 60+...will grant me credit for ENG 111 & ENG 112. That takes care of them...but of course Excelsior won't accept that.

I was trying to see if I could get a little "slick" and do it anyway after I found out something interesting. My local cc will not list it on my transcript as being a CLEP exam. It will show on my transcript as ENG 111 "Y" and ENG 112 "Y"...the "Y" designation means "Pass".

They also offer proficiency exams for ENG 111 & ENG 112 and they are only $40 per exam. Which would bring my total to just $80 for 6 quarter hours/4 semester hours.

Here's where the problem starts. I called the admissions office and spoke with a lady at Excelsior an hour ago (won't reveal her name in case any of you are related to her!!!). She stated that she really couldn't give me any advice on this matter until I am enrolled (Go Figure). My application is in and is currently being processed so I don't understand why I can't get a little question answered.

But...she did state that in order to meet the WER that I would have to have a course/exam with a letter grade. A simple "pass/fail" would not do. She also stated that a proficiency exam would not meet the WER as well.

Now here is where it gets comical. I called her on her contradictory statements and then she copped a little "tude" with me. I told her, how can you tell me that I can take an ECE Exam for English Comp (which IS a proficiency exam) and tell me that a proficiency exam will not meet the WER??? She then tells me that the ECE Exam IS NOT a PROFICIENCY EXAM??? (WTF!!!)

I had Excelsior's catalog right in my face and under the WER section it clearly states in the School of Liberal Arts Catalog (PG. 16) the following:

You must demonstrate competency in expository writing in English in one of the following ways:

1. Successful completion of an approved college-level proficiency examination such as the Excelsior College Level Examinations in English Composition {Engx101 College Writing or Eng111 English Composition} or the Advanced Placement (AP)English Examination.

2. Successful completion of a college course (minimum 3 semester or 4 quarter-hour credits; minimum grade of C from one of the following options:

3. Submission of an official statement of proficiency from a regionally accreditted institution, from which transfer credit is being accepted, verifying satisfactory completion of its writing requirement.

From reading number 1, you can see why I thought her comment was hilarious. I forgot to mention that she also stated that the reason why the ECE Exam was "not" a "proficiency exam" was because the ECE has "graded" essays and not just pass/fail credit. Which I found to be another ignorant statement, because the CLEP Freshman College Composition and the CLEP English Composition (w/essay for both) both have "graded essays" (albeit just one), but they don't accept either one of those to meet the WER. That doesn't make any sense.

Anyway...here is where I need some advice.

I can take both the proficiency exams at my local cc for $80 bucks and I will receive letter grades for both. I'm just not sure if Excelsior will grant me credit for the WER because they would be "proficiency exams" even though I would receive a "letter grade." The woman at my local cc stated that it would show on my transcript as follows:

- ENG 111 English Composition A#---------3 Quarter Hours
- ENG 112 English Composition A#---------3 Quarter Hours

***(They put pound signs next to the grade to indicate that it was a proficiency exam and not there course)***

Or...I could take the CLEP Freshman College Composition exam (w/essay) and if I get a grade of 60+ I'll get credit for ENG 111 & ENG 112 at my local cc. (See above for how it will show on my transcript at my local cc)

I'm wondering if I can take the CLEP exam and following reference point number "3" in Excelsior's catalog; have my local cc submit an official statement along with my transcript stating that I successfully completed "their" writing requirement.

------------------------------or---------------------------------------

Take the two proficiency exams and have my local cc submit an offical statement along with my transcript stating that I successfully completed their writing requirement.

What do you guys think? I won't really know the answers to any of this until I get a chance to first enroll and then speak with an Academic Advisor.

Worst case scenario is that I'll have to take ENG 111 and ENG 112 as courses at my local cc and spend a total of $476.20 including books. I can take it online though.

I'd come out better financially though if I can take the CLEP exam or the two proficiency exams at my cc.

Any light you guys can shine on this matter will be greatly appreciated.

Sorry for the long post. (You know how I get!)

From a loyal degree seeker,

Marshall

[cookderosa]

You can't launder credits. It's always up to the receiving college if credit is accepted.
Another thing that's going to bite you, is that since your CC is on quarters, those two won't come in as 6 credits- I don't know if you only need 3 or 6, but be sure to check on that.
There are a lot of options that others have used, try searching this forum, and I'm sure other EC students can help you. People DO graduate from EC, and there are economical ways to do it. But, I'd advise not to try and go around it, they've done this before, and you're not their first hilarious

[Namivie]

You might consider looking at the straighterline threads. I think they offer English I - and I think English II is due out soon. There's a number of threads on straighterline courses that could be helpful.

[creationstory]

get your AS from your local community college. then go to EC... once there EC will accept your english clep exam with essay. i'm 100% sure of that.


ps i also think the straighterline course...

[craftkc10]

once there EC will accept your english clep exam with essay. i'm 100% sure of that.

You'll get humanities credits, but it won't satisfy the WER. The catalog is very specific on this one.

[barcotta]

[FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3]My predicament lies in the financial arena because I'm going to have to pay out of pocket for these classes. I'm hoping to use my financial aid to pay my enrollment fees at Excelsior (hopefully).

Have you considered joining the Peace Officers Association of Georgia ("POAG")? Their members enjoy greatly reduced enrollment and graduation fees in exchange for committing to four on-line classes. Enrollment is knocked down to $150 and enrollment in the POAG is $25. Here's a link https://www.excelsior.edu/Excelsior_Coll...rtnerships. Look there and you'll see a whole list of partners whose membership qualifies you for discounts.

In reality, it's probably not a great deal because Excelsior classes are expensive--even with the discount. However, it'll get you enrolled and if you don't end up taking the classes, you'll just have to pay the going rate when you're ready to graduate.

I'm impressed that you got as far as you did without being enrolled. They have 30,000 enrolled students, so that fact that you got someone to talk to you in that level of detail is quite impressive!

My guess is that the person you talked to was considering CLEP and DSST "proficiency" exams and ECE and other exams from colleges and universities to be something other than proficiency--more like final exams. It's not entirely logical but it's mostly semantics.

Get yourself enrolled, send off a few short emails and you'll figure it out. Good luck.

[alissaroot]

Option One: Would your local Community College accept the credits if you took a cheaper version of English Comp through an online school? That might work for both schools. Clovis Comm. College is $51 per credit hour, for the two semesters it would be a total of $306 plus books and any other small fees. That's even cheaper than your Comm. college, although unfortunately more expensive than a test. There are other cheap online community college options, but this is the first cheap online one I found: Spring Schedule

Another online option: CSU Pueblo $295-- http://www.degreeforum.net/general-educa...lsior.html

Or, as already suggested, Straighterline for $99: Online College Courses Distance Learning Courses

Option Two: This is only if you have some time. Excelsior accepts the AP English exam, and AP is usually more widely accepted than even CLEP, so I think it likely your community college would accept it. There are a lot of drawbacks to AP for adults, but the test is currently only $86. Unfortunately, I think it is too late for you to get registered in time for this May's exam (yep, offered just once a year), but if you are willing to wait until May 2010, you can take it at a local high school. It will be a huge pain to do this, and the only reason I bring it up is in the interest of full disclosure. I recommend seeing if Option One will work for both schools, so you won't have to do English Composition twice. Wait.

Option Three: You could just do it twice.

$80 at your community college
$295 ECE English Comp
Total: $375 No classes, and just three exams. Annoying, but faster and more convenient than taking a class. Your Community College's exams are very affordable, and EC offers a payment plan for their exams, so that could help spread the cost of that out a bit.

But I think that the straighterline is a very good suggestion if your community college will accept it. Even if they don't, doing the one straighterlilne course currently available plus both exams from your comm. college with have you in good shape at both schools for just $179 total, although it is a bit annoying to do the same requirement twice. I'd do your affordable community college exams first, then see what EC says when you get your first evaluation. The admissions adviser you spoke to might be less knowledgeable than the person who does your evaluation. After you are enrolled you will know for sure whether or not you have to do the straighterline, etc.

Hope this helps!

[zefrench]

Option 4, Penn Foster:

How to register:
http://www.degreeforum.net/off-topic/463...#post24367

Approval:
http://www.degreeforum.net/general-educa...#post28254

Last I check it was $155

[mlwilliamsiv]

Thanks everyone for responding to my post...I appreciate it.

I've been crunching numbers and it seems that these are my only viable options:

(1) Take the profiency exams at my local cc for ENG 111 & ENG 112. The exams are $40 each. That would be 6 quarter hours to meet my local cc's requirements and 4 semester hours to transfer to Excelsior to meet the WER with 1 credit left over. TOTAL COST - $100 ($80 for both exams + $20 transcript fee (local cc charges) to have exams placed on transcript)

(2) Take the CLEP Freshman College Composition without essay exam (my local cc accepts this and awards credit for both ENG 111 & ENG 112) and then take Penn Fosters ENG 100 (to meet Excelsior's WER---Excelsior WILL NOT ACCEPT the CLEP exams to meet the WER). I could also apply 3 credits from the CLEP exam to my Humanities category at Excelsior. TOTAL COST - $320 ($90 CLEP Exam + $220 ENG 100 + $10 transcript fee (local cc charge for PF class)

(3) Take the ENG 111 Proficiency exam at my local cc and then take ENG 112 course at my local cc. TOTAL COST - $301 ($40 Proficiency exam + $10 transcript fee + $251 for ENG 112 including books)

NOW HERE IS WHERE THE PLAN GOES AWRY!!!!!

I must take a pre-test for my local cc before I can sit for the proficiency exam. I must score at least 90% on the pre-test to sit for ENG 111.

Further, I can score an A, B, or C for a grade in ENG 111 but I can only take the proficiency exam for ENG 112 if I score an A on the ENG 111 proficiency exam!!!

***Now before we proceed, remember that my local cc is on the quarter hour system and Excelsior is on the semester hour system.***

Now let's factor in the worst case scenario (this is assuming that I pass the pre-test in order to sit for the ENG 111 proficiency exam). If I score a B or C on the ENG 111 proficiency exam, I will only be awarded 3 quarter hour credits which will satisfy the ENG 111 requirement at my local cc only. This class alone will not meet the WER at Excelsior because after transfer I would only be awarded 2 semester hours (remember the conversion table). On top of this I will not be eligible to sit for the ENG 112 exam.

Now I can take the Penn Foster course to meet the WER for Excelsior but I would still need to take ENG 112 to satisfy my local cc's English requirement. So I would either have to take the ENG 112 course at my local cc or take the CLEP Freshman College Composition exam.

Now for the worst-worst case scenario!!! I will only get credit for ENG 111 and 112 at my local cc if I score a minimum of 60. So if I don't score a minimum of 60 but at least a 49; I will get credit for ENG 111 only and would still need ENG 112. And I couldn't retake this exam for 6 months to try for a better grade. Then the only solution I would have is to take an ENG 112 course.

Do you see now why I'm over here pulling my hair out!!! My main concern is save money because I'm on a VERY VERY TIGHT BUDGET, so every move I make must be calculated to precision. My best case scenario is to study my butt off and pass the ENG 111 and ENG 112 proficiency exams at my local cc for $80 bucks. This would take care of both my local cc's requirements and Excelsior's WER.

I would assume that the proficiency exams are no more difficult than an ECE exam and would at least be on the same par as a CLEP exam. I'm going to go over the syllabi for both ENG exams and study-study-study.

Any more suggestions you guys may have are welcomed!!!

Thanks again for reading and peace be with you all.

From a loyal degree seeker,

Marshall

***SIDEBAR*** I spoke with a lady at my local cc in the PRIOR LEARNING DEPT. and she stated that they don't accept ECE exams!!!***

[mlwilliamsiv]

Hello everyone.

I have a question. I was going to post this in a new thread but because it piggybacks off of this one, I've decided to put it here.

(See above for reference)

Assume I pass the ENG 111 proficiency exam with a "B" or "C." That would give me 3 quarter hours at my local cc, and 2 semester hours at Excelsior.

If I then take the ENG 100 English Composition course at Penn Foster and pass it, will the 3 semester hours earned from that course plus the 2 semester hours from the ENG 111 proficiency exam be sufficient to meet the WER at Excelsior? That would give me 5 semester hours total and the WER only requires 3; or would I have to take ENG 112 as well.

Thanks in advance for your help on this matter.

From a loyal degree seeker,

Marshall