Yet Another Plan for BA Natural Science and Mathematics Degree- Need help

[Sapphyreopal5]

[COLOR="#4B0082"]
Hello everyone, this is yet another person who's relatively new and is looking for help developing a plan to get the BA Natural Science and Mathematics Degree. The classes I currently have (for reference sake in case I miscategorized any of my classes). I used sanatone's plan for this degree, and tried my best to reference TESU's PLA database, other threads on this website, etc. to calculate CPCC to potential TESU equivalencies and to determine how to test out of as many classes as possible. Below are the classes I currently have:
ENG-232 American Literature II 3.00
MED-120 Survey of Med Terminology 2.00
BIO-163 Basic Anat & Physiology 5.00
HEA-110 Personal Health/Wellness 3.00
PHY-110 Conceptual Physics 3.00
PHY-110A Conceptual Physics Lab 1.00
PSY-281 Abnormal Psychology 3.00
BIO-110 Principles of Biology 4.00
CHM-121 Foundations of Chemistry 3.00
CHM-121A Foundations of Chem Lab 1.00
ART-111 Art Appreciation 3.00
ART-121 Two-Dimensional Design 3.00
ART-131 Drawing I 3.00
BIO-145 Ecology 4.00
CIS-110 Introduction to Computers 4.00
COM-231 Public Speaking 3.00
ECO-251 Prin of Microeconomics 3.00
ENG-111 Expository Writing 3.00
ENG-113 Literature-Based Research 3.00
HIS-112 World Civilizations II 3.00
MAT-161 College Algebra 3.00
PHI-215 Philosophical Issues 3.00
POL-110 Intro Political Science 3.00
PSY-150 General Psychology 3.00
SOC-210 Introduction to Sociology 3.00
Classes that most likely won't count for really anything but would be AMAZING if an awesome advisor did LOL (10 credits)
ICT-114 Intro Cardiovascular Tech 2.0
ICT-134 Cv Anatomy & Physiology 4.0
NCT-113 Electrocardiography 4.0
Total earned credits: 185
Total grade points: 126
Cumulative GPA: 3.316

Sapphyreopal5's likely flawed Plan for BA in Natural Science and Mathematics (classes/exams I need). As I said, I made this based on sanatone's degree plan in the Wiki, as well as what KayV suggested in a previous post of mine (hey I gotta give credit when it's due ). I'm also attempting to make this plan, so I take the minimum 24 or however many TESU credits are needed.
I. General Education Requirements (60)
A. Intellectual and Practical Skills (15)
Written Communication (6)
- 3.0 ENG-111 Expository Writing (ENC-101)
- 3.0 ENG-113 Literature-Based Research (ENC-102)
Oral Communication (3)
- 3.0 COM-231 Public Speaking (COM-209)
Quantitative Literacy (3)
- 3.0 ENG-232 American Literature II (LIT-206?)
Information Literacy (3)
- 3.0 MAT-161 College Algebra (MAT-121)

B. Civic and Global Learning (9)
Diversity (3)
- 3.0 SOC-210 Introduction to Sociology (SOC-101)
Ethics (3)
- 3.0 TECEP ETH-210 Environmental Ethics
Civic Engagement (3)
- 3.0 POL-110 Intro Political Science (POS-110)

C. Knowledge of Human Cultures 12
- 3.0 PSY-281 Abnormal Psychology (PSY-350)
- 3.0 PSY-150 General Psychology (PSY-101)
- 3.0 ECO-251 Prin of Microeconomics (ECO-112)

D. Understanding the Physical and Natural World (4-7)
- 4.0 BIO-110 Principles of Biology? (BIO-101)

E. General Education Electives (17-20)
- 3.0 ART-111 Art Appreciation (ART-100?)
- 3.0 ART-121 Two-Dimensional Design (ART-221?)
- 3.0 ART-131 Drawing I (ART-101?)
- 4.0 CIS-110 Introduction to Computers (COS-101)
- 3.0 PHI-215 Philosophical Issues (PHI-101 or PHI-130?)
- 3.0 HIS-112 World Civilizations II (HIS-126)

II. Area of Study: Natural Sciences/Mathematics (33)
A. REQUIREMENTS
1. Students complete 30 credits in the natural sciences/mathematics concentration. (30)
Biology (17 credits, 9 UL)
[COLOR="#EE82EE"]- UL 3.0 UExcel Pathphysiology
- UL 3.0 UExcel Basic Genetics
- 4.0 SL/CC Anatomy and Physiology I
- 4.0 SL/CC Anatomy and Physiology II
- UL 3.0 SL Microbiology[/COLOR]

Chemistry (8 credits)
[COLOR="#EE82EE"]- 4.0 SL/Saylor/CC General Chemistry I
- 4.0 SL/CC General Chemistry II[/COLOR]

Computer Science (6 credits, 6 UL)
[COLOR="#EE82EE"]- UL 3.0 CMP-354 TECEP Network Technology
- UL 3.0 CIS-301 DSST Management Information Systems[/COLOR]

Possible Alternative Concentrations
Environmental Science (9 credits, 6 UL)
[COLOR="#EE82EE"]- UL 6.0 ENS-314 Global Environmental Change OR UL 6.0 ENS-360 Environmental Sustainability and Social Justice
- SL Intro to Environmental Science[/COLOR]

B. LIB-495 Liberal Arts Capstone (3)

III. Electives (27)
[COLOR="#EE82EE"]- 3.0 TECEP Science of Nutrition
- 3.0 SL/DSST Environmental Science/Environment and Humanity[/COLOR]
- 2.0 MED-120 Survey of Med Terminology (if this doesn't fly, perhaps the 3.0 TECEP Medical Terminology or fight it?)
- 3.0 BIO-145 Ecology (unless this counts as 3.0 BIO-371 and is therefore an environmental science class?)
- 4.0 PHY-110 Conceptual Physics w/ 1.0 lab (PHY-102)
- 4.0 CHM-121 Foundations of Chemistry w/ 1.0 lab (CHE-101)
- 5.0 BIO-163 Basic Anat & Physiology (BIO-210)
- 3.00 HEA-110 Personal Health/Wellness (HEA-106)

Total Credits: 75 of 120

Some factors to consider: I am looking for a science-related job, be it medical lab science or some other life/environmental science-related job. I do qualify for the Pell Grant (at least at CPCC I do), so I am willing to take some TESU classes but as few as possible. My current employer (I'm a specimen processor at a medical lab) apparently has a tuition reimbursement prTogram, although they will only pay for science classes, such as biology and chemistry if you've been employed for at least a year (my one year is Feb 23). his depends on how much money is in the budget for my location. In this, it may be feasible to get my labs done in-person at my local community college. I am concerned about the 85 credit limit if I take anymore than about 10 credits at the community college, which is why I'm considering taking the classes on SL and possibly re-do them later for the purpose of graded labs (for employer or even possibly PA school sakes, should I end up going that route far down the road). I would be super grateful if anyone could chime in and help me with this plan or to at least check out my categorization of the above classes. IF TESU lets me do this, I am also going to try getting the BA in Psychology (likely after I get this degree, since it'd be cheaper to get the psychology degree without financial aid of sorts).

P.S. I also did base some of my plan on another plan KayV posted on another one of my threads some time ago, although I've learned that the Principles of Biology, Basic Anatomy and Physiology, and Foundations of Chemistry classes would NOT count as a first within a 2-class sequence (ex. BIO-111, BIO-211, and CHE-111). [/COLOR]

[Sapphyreopal5]

Gulp... No one?

[TrailRunr]

I don't think TECEP CMP-354 is going to count as CS. It's too much of an applied topic to count as CS.

[davewill]

I don't think TECEP CMP-354 is going to count as CS. It's too much of an applied topic to count as CS.

When I asked about a few courses I wanted to apply to my BACS area of study including the Network Tech TECEP (CMP-354) for CS, here's what academic advising sent.

David,

CMP-354, ELD-311 and ELD-400 may NOT be applied to Computer Science electives. CIS-351 may be applied.

Here's a list of possible Computer Science electives. Please be careful not to duplicate courses that you've already taken and be aware that you need AT LEAST 15 credits of upper level (300/400) courses in the entire Area of Study.

COS-116
COS-213
COS-330
COS-352
COS-451
CIS-301
CIS-351
CIS-311

Should you have more questions, please contact our office again via new email to academicadvising@tesc.edu with your degree program in the subject line. Thank you.

Now this was for BACS, they may feel differently for this requirement, but I don't think so.

[dfrecore]

So in looking at this, I see the following issues:

1) UExcel's Basic Genetics is a LL course
2) You've already taken Basic Anatomy & Physiology, so taking it again through SL or your CC will just duplicate
3) You've already taken Chemistry, so taking it again through SL or your CC will just duplicate
4) SL does not have Chem II, so you'd have to take that through your CC
5) Network Tech TECEP probably isn't a Natural Science course, so it would be a free elective; there are probably easier courses/TECEP's you can take
6) Literature-Based Research probably will not count as English II, but it MAY meet your Info Lit requirement
7) PoliSci will not meet your Civic Engagement requirement; you have to take American Government, either as a CLEP or through SL

So I show that you need 2 add'l UL courses; not sure if the Fundamentals of Cybersecurity DSST counts as NatSci or not, but if it does, that would be good. CSU-Global has Cloud Computing & Big Data and Info Systems Analysis & Design that might work as NatSci, both UL. The only other UL courses I can find that would fit into this program are the edX Differential Equations courses - you would have to take SL's Calc I (and maybe even Calc II, I'm not sure) to be able to pass them. The first course starts Feb 4, and you have to take it when it starts, so it's not self-paced but an actual online course.

You also didn't say whether you were going to do the Per-Credit Tuition Plan, in which case you need 8 TECEP's.

If I were you, I would do the following:
English Comp II TECEP
Technical Writing TECEP
Environmental Ethics TECEP
Liberal Arts Math TECEP
Science of Nutrition TECEP
Computer Concepts & Applicatons TECEP
Capstone TESU
1 additional TECEP (anything will work)

American Government SL or CLEP

Pathophysiology UExcel
Basic Genetics UExcel
Microbiology + Lab SL
MIS DSST
Anatomy & Physiology II SL

Any 2 UL CIS courses

If instead of CIS courses, you want to take the 2 Environmental Science courses through TESU, then you don't need the add'l TECEP, and you can even get rid of 1 of them (you need 24cr/8 courses total). I also think at this point that even if your employer would reimburse you for the courses, that they would not pay for the Enrollment Fee, so it would not pay to switch to the Enrolled Options Plan. You would still have to pay for the Enrollment fee of $3300, and then the employer would reap the benefits of the lower cost of the courses. In this case, it just doesn't make sense to do it. You're better off paying for your Capstone and your TECEP's and going through the Per-Credit plan.

Hope that helps.

[Sapphyreopal5]

[COLOR="#4B0082"]Ahh I must have been really tired and looking at old information regarding Chemistry II being available on SL when I made this plan last night. Yes I am aiming to do the per credit plan, as I'd like to avoid the notorious enrollment fee if at all possible. I'm seeing that CLEP for Chemistry would count for Chemistry I and Chemistry 2. Is it possible to take the CLEP for Chemistry and take Chemistry II at CPCC (their CLEP policy states they take this for Chemistry I provided you can pass Chemistry II), or would it be a waste if TESU counts my class as a Chemistry I duplicate?
[/COLOR]

So in looking at this, I see the following issues:
2) You've already taken Basic Anatomy & Physiology, so taking it again through SL or your CC will just duplicate
3) You've already taken Chemistry, so taking it again through SL or your CC will just duplicate
Hope that helps.

[COLOR="#4B0082"]
I've been reading some conflicting information regarding the Foundations of Chemistry course I took (will likely translate to CHE-101, since CPCC also offered Chemistry I). On TESU's website for this chemistry course, it states "Advisory: This course does not meet the chemistry area of study General Chemistry requirement. It will not satisfy the chemistry requirement for Natural Sciences or Applied Science and Technology degree programs.". I am also seeing there's an Anatomy and Physiology (doesn't have I after it, which is BIO-210) and then also Anatomy and Physiology I. I don't see any actual course description for the BIO-210 except in the PLA database, so I'm not sure if a transfer advisor would just bring that in as A&P I or what. As far as the UExcel Genetics, I too have been seeing a lot of conflicting information on this matter, especially since I based my plan on what I saw on Sanatone's BA plan and what KayV suggested in another thread of mine. What makes me also confused about the Survey of Chemistry and Basic Anatomy equivalents I came up with is that they don't seem to have any lab components included with the TESU classes, yet my transript shows I took the labs for these classes. If the Genetics class doesn't count as an UL and if it's a pain in the you know what to CLEP or even take BIO I, I may just go the SL route for BIO. I am trying to avoid retaking any classes if at all possible. If BIO I and CHM I end up being the equivalents for the courses I took I'd actually be quite happy but it doesn't seem like this is the case based on the TESU site?

I'm leaning towards taking the environmental science concentration instead of computer science. Don't get me wrong, I use my computer a lot but environmental science is more interesting to me and not to mention the classes are most likely easier than those TECEPs. EDIT: Now, because I am also looking to possibly get the BA in Psychology also from TESU down the road, I've heard of being able to fulfill some of the Psychology electives using the major requirements in the BA Natural Sci/Math degree and then using the electives in the BA Natural Sci/Math degree to fulfill some of the Psychology major requirements. If the Physiological Psychology TESU class could possibly count as a biology requirement under the Natural Science concentration that would be awesome. Does anyone know of TESU granting this biology fulfillment for this class? Also, if I can take any TECEPs to fulfill free electives or even major requirements that also count under the BA of Psychology degree, that'd be fabulous!
[/COLOR]

[TrailRunr]

So I show that you need 2 add'l UL courses; not sure if the Fundamentals of Cybersecurity DSST counts as NatSci or not, but if it does, that would be good. CSU-Global has Cloud Computing & Big Data and Info Systems Analysis & Design that might work as NatSci, both UL.

I was able to get preapproved for the CBE in Info System Analysis & Design in CS. The Cloud Computing CBE was denied for UL CS because it's too basic, too applied, and didn't have any programming. I doubt it will fly as a natural science. It would have came in as CAP-499, which is pretty much the kiss of death for natural science applicability. I suspect the cybersecurity DSST is too applied to be a natural science too especially since TEEX comes in as 2 CAP and 1 CIS.

[sanantone]

I was able to get preapproved for the CBE in Info System Analysis & Design in CS. The Cloud Computing CBE was denied for UL CS because it's too basic, too applied, and didn't have any programming. I doubt it will fly as a natural science. It would have came in as CAP-499, which is pretty much the kiss of death for natural science applicability. I suspect the cybersecurity DSST is too applied to be a natural science too especially since TEEX comes in as 2 CAP and 1 CIS.

If a course is CIS, then there is probably a 50/50 chance of it being a natural science. Out of the computer-related subjects, only CS courses are guaranteed to be natural sciences. TESU told another member that Cloud Computing will not count as a natural science. They did, however, approve Information Systems Design and Management as a natural science. I don't know if it still is counted as a natural science since they just changed the equivalency.

I have taken Information Systems Analysis and Design, and it is used in the natural science area of study when I do a "what-if" evaluation. The Networking Technology TECEP used to count as a natural science, but this changed a couple of years ago. One of the TEEX courses used to have the same equivalency as the DSST for Cybersecurity. I still have it as that equivalency since I was enrolled before the change. It does not count as a natural science.

The edX courses have a prerequisite of calculus, but it is not an enforced prerequisite. You will need to know calculus in order to pass the courses, but you can do this without paying for calculus courses. You can go through Saylor material, watch Khan Academy videos, or go through something else that's free. However, since the first course starts in 10 days, you probably won't have enough time.

[dfrecore]

Ahh I must have been really tired and looking at old information regarding Chemistry II being available on SL when I made this plan last night. Yes I am aiming to do the per credit plan, as I'd like to avoid the notorious enrollment fee if at all possible. I'm seeing that CLEP for Chemistry would count for Chemistry I and Chemistry 2. Is it possible to take the CLEP for Chemistry and take Chemistry II at CPCC (their CLEP policy states they take this for Chemistry I provided you can pass Chemistry II), or would it be a waste if TESU counts my class as a Chemistry I duplicate?



I've been reading some conflicting information regarding the Foundations of Chemistry course I took (will likely translate to CHE-101, since CPCC also offered Chemistry I). On TESU's website for this chemistry course, it states "Advisory: This course does not meet the chemistry area of study General Chemistry requirement. It will not satisfy the chemistry requirement for Natural Sciences or Applied Science and Technology degree programs.". I am also seeing there's an Anatomy and Physiology (doesn't have I after it, which is BIO-210) and then also Anatomy and Physiology I. I don't see any actual course description for the BIO-210 except in the PLA database, so I'm not sure if a transfer advisor would just bring that in as A&P I or what. As far as the UExcel Genetics, I too have been seeing a lot of conflicting information on this matter, especially since I based my plan on what I saw on Sanatone's BA plan and what KayV suggested in another thread of mine. What makes me also confused about the Survey of Chemistry and Basic Anatomy equivalents I came up with is that they don't seem to have any lab components included with the TESU classes, yet my transript shows I took the labs for these classes. If the Genetics class doesn't count as an UL and if it's a pain in the you know what to CLEP or even take BIO I, I may just go the SL route for BIO. I am trying to avoid retaking any classes if at all possible. If BIO I and CHM I end up being the equivalents for the courses I took I'd actually be quite happy but it doesn't seem like this is the case based on the TESU site?

I'm leaning towards taking the environmental science concentration instead of computer science. Don't get me wrong, I use my computer a lot but environmental science is more interesting to me and not to mention the classes are most likely easier than those TECEPs. EDIT: Now, because I am also looking to possibly get the BA in Psychology also from TESU down the road, I've heard of being able to fulfill some of the Psychology electives using the major requirements in the BA Natural Sci/Math degree and then using the electives in the BA Natural Sci/Math degree to fulfill some of the Psychology major requirements. If the Physiological Psychology TESU class could possibly count as a biology requirement under the Natural Science concentration that would be awesome. Does anyone know of TESU granting this biology fulfillment for this class? Also, if I can take any TECEPs to fulfill free electives or even major requirements that also count under the BA of Psychology degree, that'd be fabulous!

There is just no way to know ahead of time what TESU will apply these courses at, until you send in your transcripts. I would definitely not take any courses until I knew that they were not duplicates though. So you may have to put those off until later.

You don't have to declare a major or anything there, so you are free to take whatever kinds of science courses you want. With the planned BIO courses you have in here, you have enough BIO courses to fulfill the requirement that you get 12-18 units in 1 area, so you are done with that. Now, you get to take whatever other UL science courses you want. If you want the Environmental Science classes from TESU, go for it.

As far as taking additonal CLEP science courses, I wouldn't do it. They are 100-level courses and won't work in your area of study, and will probably overlap what you've already taken. You have a LOT of LL courses, and plenty of science, to the point that more LL sciences won't help. It would be a waste of time and money.

The TECEP's can count in any area, it doesn't matter. I just recommended the ones I did because they are the easiest or fit into your plan the best.

I have a spreadsheet showing the plan if you're interested in having it. Just PM me and I can send it to you. It's preliminary, but so far I've been really close in figuring out what TESU will do with courses coming in. You can change it after your eval if you need to.

[Nightmoves5]

Would it be duplicating if one has already taken college-level chemistry, physics and biology respectively and then takes the natural sciencle CLEP?