Wondering if my plan is good...

[sweetcrabhoney]

AWW I think this is the reason for confusion ... I didn't ask if I should go to nursing over acupuncture. I asked should I get a biology degree or an RN... to become a doctor of TCM

I came here because there is a nursing degree at the one of the big three and a biology degree at two of them ... so I have the option but I honestly don't know which one is a better choice in the long run. I was hoping one of you had taken the nursing program and knew if it was good or bad...

This is one of the schools I'm considering for my masters ; FIVE BRANCHES UNIVERSITY . They are called graduate schools it seems ... so we're both wrong lol...

For awhile I intended to get my doctorate in nutrition or dietitian since it's a requirement in CA it seems. Easier to have the DC... lol or MD lol which ever one that school ends up giving me !

I'm not upset... there was just a bit of confusion ... it happens! No need to say sorry! It's an honest mistake we both made it seems.

[sanantone]

Sorry for not reading the OP properly. Five Branches University calls itself a graduate school because it only offers graduate degrees. It's just a general term that is applied to post-baccalaureate programs in any field. Excelsior is the only one of the Big 3 that offers an associate's in nursing, and you have to be an LVN/LPN, certified midwife, respiratory therapist, paramedic, or medical corpsman or equivalent to be admitted. TESC's online BSN is an RN to BSN program. You need to already be an RN. Their BSN for non-licensed individuals is partially on campus.

Becoming a nurse is a very involved process. I don't know why one would get a nursing degree if he or she never intends to practice as a nurse. If you want to study biology, then study biology; but, you don't need a degree in biology to enter the program. All that matters is having the prerequisites. They only require 15 credits in natural science, and none of the courses have to include labs.

Educational Requirements - Five Branches University | Five Branches University

[sweetcrabhoney]

Sorry for not reading the OP properly. Five Branches University calls itself a graduate school because it only offers graduate degrees. It's just a general term that is applied to post-baccalaureate programs in any field. Excelsior is the only one of the Big 3 that offers an associate's in nursing, and you have to be an LVN/LPN, certified midwife, respiratory therapist, paramedic, or medical corpsman or equivalent to be admitted. TESC's online BSN is an RN to BSN program. You need to already be an RN. Their BSN for non-licensed individuals is partially on campus.

Becoming a nurse is a very involved process. I don't know why one would get a nursing degree if he or she never intends to practice as a nurse. If you want to study biology, then study biology; but, you don't need a degree in biology to enter the program. All that matters is having the prerequisites. They only require 15 credits in natural science, and none of the courses have to include labs.

Educational Requirements - Five Branches University | Five Branches University

Thanks for saving me a phone call to Excelsior... was going to call them this afternoon ( when my toddler is napping) about their requirements since the website was so confusing! At least I know now that CC is the only choice for that degree...

Becoming a nurse is involved! And that's my fear... if it's worthy of putting all my focus into when it's not online and I'll be started a new job ( real estate ). The biology degree seems more relaxed ; and of course more fun.

I was thinking of just taking care of the requirements as well since it would be the quickest. Those 15 credits could be done with some CLEP tests...

Since the test on my list are : Natural science , biology and chemistry.

There was another school that I think says there must be some labs... I have to get the link and check again .

I think getting the bio degree may be the better choice.

Thank you tons for your help and advice and motivation. It means a lot to me.

[sanantone]

Thanks for saving me a phone call to Excelsior... was going to call them this afternoon ( when my toddler is napping) about their requirements since the website was so confusing! At least I know now that CC is the only choice for that degree...

Becoming a nurse is involved! And that's my fear... if it's worthy of putting all my focus into when it's not online and I'll be started a new job ( real estate ). The biology degree seems more relaxed ; and of course more fun.

I was thinking of just taking care of the requirements as well since it would be the quickest. Those 15 credits could be done with some CLEP tests...

Since the test on my list are : Natural science , biology and chemistry.

There was another school that I think says there must be some labs... I have to get the link and check again .

I think getting the bio degree may be the better choice.

Thank you tons for your help and advice and motivation. It means a lot to me.

Excelsior's website is not the easiest to navigate. I don't know why, but my anti-virus software is blocking access to the admissions requirements page.

Excelsior College | Admissions at Excelsior College: Requirements

There aren't many online degrees in biology if that's something you're considering. Excelsior has an online bachelor's in natural science with a concentration in biology. TESC doesn't offer all of the required courses for its BA in biology and neither does COSC for its bachelor's in general studies with a concentration in biology. A major in biology will usually require pre-calculus or calculus, chemistry I and II with lab, organic chemistry I and II with lab, physics I and II with lab, biology I and II with lab, and possibly some upper level biology lab courses.

[clep3705]

Online nursing programs confuse many people. What you need to know is that in order to become a registered nurse, you must have completed something in the range of 700-800 supervised (a registered nurse does the supervision) direct patient contact hours where you do things such as start IVs, administer shots, examine patients, adjust ventilators, clean wounds, etc. The number of hours can be slightly reduced if you have a current license as a paramedic (EMT is not enough) or licensed practical nurse (this is called licensed vocational nurse in Texas and California).

[sweetcrabhoney]

I'm starting to wonder because of all this valuable information you've all been sharing with me if it'd be better to get a degree in health management and take the required science classes once I'm ready to apply for grad school.

I really just want to look good on paper... Would a health management degree look better on paper than a biology degree? It'd take less time to complete. No matter what I'd have to do the science classes.

I don't think nursing is for me. I thought about LVN or paramedic years ago but changed my mind after my grandmother died.

[cookderosa]

I don't understand why it seems like I have to prove my choice is a valid good one though? Everyone has a dream ... why do I have to prove that my dream is worthy of dreaming about? I know I'm going to be judged different't because the DC title I want to get isn't something people respect and that's fine. But it's something I'm passionate about and focused on earning.

There are different forms of doctors. Tons of different forms.

For awhile I was considering chiropractic ; which has a unique title compared to MD or DC I only changed my mind because there is only one medical school in the San Francisco Bay area that was close to me.

And then my mother was an NP before she became a doctor. As a child she often said she wished she skipped the NP and went straight to med school instead. I would never shadow my mother's lead or my grandmother ( who was an RN even when she died )

They are med schools by the way. They are called TCM because they teach traditional Chinese medicine

I'm not calling myself a doctor yet , and it's considered an MD once I'm done. California law says I can be an L.a.c after a master's degree from one of the three colleges in this area.

The doctor of TCM in this area got his degrees in China ... so can't really follow his lead.

I'll see who I can shadow.

I have done a lot of research and continue to do research. At this point I'm stressed and worried that the start of my education will be wrong and I'd have to start over at some point. It's a fear I have because I do aim for perfection.

It might be best I just stick with my first plan -- degree in biology ...

Thank you for the advice.

My apologies if you felt my post was judging your choice. I actually thought you wanted to be either an MD or NP first, followed by an acupuncturist. (EDIT to say I've since read ahead through the end of the thread). My dad is a chiropractor, he graduated from Palmer in the early 80's so you don't have to justify non-traditional medicine to me. My mom was a nurse until she died- and I played with the idea of pursuing med school to be an OBGYN or nursing school to become a CNM (I've even had 2 homebirths and was a volunteer doula for years). My point is that there are steps that you take in one direction that take you closer to one goal but further away from the other, it's easy to waste steps. I'm happy to help you NOT waste steps, and the first part in that is just getting clear on exactly what you want or don't want.

[sweetcrabhoney]

My apologies if you felt my post was judging your choice. I actually thought you wanted to be either an MD or NP first, followed by an acupuncturist. (EDIT to say I've since read ahead through the end of the thread). My dad is a chiropractor, he graduated from Palmer in the early 80's so you don't have to justify non-traditional medicine to me. My mom was a nurse until she died- and I played with the idea of pursuing med school to be an OBGYN or nursing school to become a CNM (I've even had 2 homebirths and was a volunteer doula for years). My point is that there are steps that you take in one direction that take you closer to one goal but further away from the other, it's easy to waste steps. I'm happy to help you NOT waste steps, and the first part in that is just getting clear on exactly what you want or don't want.

It's inspiring to hear this.. and helpful beyond words. No need for apologies ; it happens often. I choose acupuncture because it can be blended into many many types of businesses ( like into a spa or rehab retreat for example ). Your all good and your intention was good so no worries.

My family and I live on limited income ; so I have to be extremely careful about the cost of college and the investment since many of it will be out of pocket. Like you said... I don't want to waste steps. I want to spend as little time and money as possible on the undergrad degree and spend a ton on grad school.

SO please! Help with anything you can ... I don't want to make the wrong choice and end up having to start all over just to get into grad school... that would be depressing. I really appreciate your offer and your experience. Thank you again.

PS. Love the fan page you made about free colleges /looking forward to your book too.

[cookderosa]

It's inspiring to hear this.. and helpful beyond words. No need for apologies ; it happens often. I choose acupuncture because it can be blended into many many types of businesses ( like into a spa or rehab retreat for example ). Your all good and your intention was good so no worries.

My family and I live on limited income ; so I have to be extremely careful about the cost of college and the investment since many of it will be out of pocket. Like you said... I don't want to waste steps. I want to spend as little time and money as possible on the undergrad degree and spend a ton on grad school.

SO please! Help with anything you can ... I don't want to make the wrong choice and end up having to start all over just to get into grad school... that would be depressing. I really appreciate your offer and your experience. Thank you again.

PS. Love the fan page you made about free colleges /looking forward to your book too.

Ok, so strictly from a mathematical perspective, nursing will give you a zillion times better return on investment than any of the options you outlined (the nurses are going to freak out because they'll tell you not to go into nursing for the money, and I agree, but you can pick what you want to do-I'm not going to influence you there, I'm just going to show you the math!)

A lot of this you probably already know because of your mom, but...here's what I would do if it were me:

You can earn your RN by completing an associate degree. Almost every community college offers a nursing program leading to RN. Average community college tuition is around $100/credit, average associate degree in nursing is around 65 credits. There are always science requirements, and they are almost always on top of that, so lets round up to 75. So, rack rate for this option is $7500 for a 2 yearish degree. If you have a child and if money is tight, there is an excellent chance that you'll qualify for a Pell Grant which is $5500/year - the overage pays for books and uniforms, stethoscope, etc. In short, no out of pocket. Now, you can't shave much time off of this because nursing classes require sequencing that will take 4 semesters, but you can shave class load. You can do this by using CLEP to take all the gen eds (not science) and get them off your plate. English, Sociology, Math, etc are all easily done via CLEP. Taking 1 class per semester OFF YOUR PLATE makes life a little more manageable, even if it means you're paying cash for the CLEP while the class might otherwise be paid for by Pell.

Also, I would apply for the NURSE Corps Scholarship Program. http://www.hrsa.gov
You'll get 100% of everything completely paid, plus a monthly stipend $ for living expenses.

**all of this** can be done very inexpensively, and qualifies you for work as an RN. Starting salary is up close to $25/hour, you can work flexible shifts, and you'll get benefits. I'd also suggest picking a hospital that provides tuition reimbursement for your BSN.

Your BSN, when you're ready to start (might need to work 1 year first) can be 100% online and 100% free through tuition reimbursement. These take 2 or less years.

Some, not all, hospitals also pay for MSN or NP school, but that's for another day. Too many variables there, but you can get into nursing for very very low cost and earn a living in the $50,000 range with no student loan debt.

Cost to earn RN (under $10,000) return on investment at 10 years from today: $50,000 year x 8 years = $400,000 - $10,000 education = $390,000 (takes 2 years to get credential)
Cost to earn X degree (input here) return on investment at 10 years from today: $salary year x __ years = _______ - $edu cost = ____________


You can run those numbers in any other plan, but nursing is almost always the winner because you can earn the credential for next to nothing and the income rocks. Doctors don't break even for a long time, so you'd have to be a doctor LONGER than 15 years before you'd have a better return on investment. There is no data in the govt occupational handbook for Chinese Medicine, so I couldn't run the numbers, but since they don't get insurance reimbursement, you'll have some issues with finding people who can pay cash for treatment. My estimation is that it won't profit as well as nursing, but that's just a guess.

[clep3705]

It is correct that a nursing degree is very sequential. Course A must be taken before course B which must be taken before course C, etc. A common area of confusion is the sequencing of general education and science prerequisites and actual nursing courses. Sometimes you will see degree plans that show the prerequisites spread throughout the degree program. Things don't usually work that way. Typically all general education and science prerequisites must be completed before starting any nursing courses.

Most nursing schools offer information sessions. It's important to go to the information sessions and find out how things actually work before seriously considering applying. Ask pointed questions. If a nursing program is 4 semesters long, ask what percentage of students complete the program 4 semesters later. Of those who don't, how many eventually finish and how many never finish. The answers to these questions affect the cost of the program. Some schools graduate as few as half of those who start. That's why NCLEX pass rates aren't the best measure of a schools success. If 95% or more of the students pass the NCLEX on the first attempt but only half graduate, can you really say the school is doing a good job?