AP Credit

[cookderosa]

Most schools in California (CSU & UC) give AP exams 6 semester/8 quarter credits, and most of them award the 2 different English exams differently (6/8 units in English Comp, 3/4 units in Lit, and 3/4 units in gen ed). That being said, unfortunately, you don't get to tell TESC how they should credit the units, they get to have their own POLICY that they follow and award credits based on that, every time, to every person who transfers those courses in, in the exact same way.

Now, if they would just put that policy in writing and then follow it, that would be fantastic! They do it for CLEP and DSST quite clearly on the website and in their catalog, I'm not sure why they can't do it with AP exams.

My life is full of event after event when someone told me something was one way and the reality was completely different.
My annoyance with this thread is that you're arguing someone not to even try, as if there is some big consequence to be feared. So what if it doesn't get changed? The poster has nothing to lose.

[dfrecore]

My annoyance with this thread is that you're arguing someone not to even try, as if there is some big consequence to be feared. So what if it doesn't get changed? The poster has nothing to lose.

I was not saying this at all.

Earlier in post #28, I gave advice on how to try to challenge TESC with what worked for me. I would DEFINITELY challenge TESC on this.

In Post #27, it was said that "most schools only give 3 credits per exam", and I was pointing out that I don't necessarily think that's true. My experience has been the opposite. Nevertheless, I was agreeing with you that TESC doesn't do what "most schools" do, but what they choose.

I would just like to see something in writing for AP exams, similar to the CLEP and DSST pages on the website, which shows each exam, how many units it counts as for the score, and what course number(s) each translates to. Not sure how that turned into telling the poster not to try.

[cookderosa]

I was not saying this at all.

Earlier in post #28, I gave advice on how to try to challenge TESC with what worked for me. I would DEFINITELY challenge TESC on this.

In Post #27, it was said that "most schools only give 3 credits per exam", and I was pointing out that I don't necessarily think that's true. My experience has been the opposite. Nevertheless, I was agreeing with you that TESC doesn't do what "most schools" do, but what they choose.

I would just like to see something in writing for AP exams, similar to the CLEP and DSST pages on the website, which shows each exam, how many units it counts as for the score, and what course number(s) each translates to. Not sure how that turned into telling the poster not to try.

Actually, let me correct what I said. I said "My annoyance with this thread is that you're arguing someone not to even try, as if there is some big consequence to be feared. So what if it doesn't get changed? The poster has nothing to lose"

I should have said "people." I wasn't calling you out. I was addressing the tone the thread had taken after I pointed out TESC's inconsistency. Not you as in you "dfrecore."

My posts don't ever argue with people here. My post do sometimes argue the process, policy, assumption or misinformation. I have no skin in the game- whether or not anyone gets 3 or 6 credits only matters to me in as much as I use it to inform what I know about how credit is awarded. That's how I learn. Since "I" am not a student with this transcript, there is no way for "me" to call TESC out on this. It should be done though. So, if I can encourage one or more future AP credit holders to do that, I can learn from how TESC responds. Furthermore, if it's corrected, we then have a precedent for future students who read this board.

There is nothing random in TESC's awarding of credit- that's why people on this board who have been here every day for 3, 5, 7+ years can help students who are new. Because there IS a reason for this, that, or the other. When TESC steps out of consistency, it's GLARINGLY OBVIOUS to those of us who know how credit is awarded.

Again, this isn't to address one poster's comments, this is to put a little fight into the people reading this; to ENCOURAGE them to go after the credit.

[Soonersiren]

I heard back from TESC today on the English Courses. They insist that they are duplicate tests. See the email exchange below:

I believe that two of my Advanced Placement tests were erroneously coded as duplicates. Past students have had them coded as follows:
English Language and Comp: ENG101/102 (6 credits)
English Literature: LIT208/209 (6 credits)
The description for the AP English Literature exam is as follows:
"An AP English Literature and Composition course engages students in the careful reading and critical analysis of literature. Through the close reading of selected texts, students deepen their understanding of the ways writers use language to provide both meaning and pleasure for their readers. Students consider a work’s structure, style and themes, as well as such smaller-scale elements as the use of figurative language, imagery, symbolism and tone. According to surveys of comparable curricula at four-year colleges and universities, it is equivalent to a two-semester introductory college course in literary analysis."

Further, the comparable English Literature CLEP exam is listed on your website as being credited as LIT-208/209-CE English Literature.

Would it be possible to ask for someone to reevaluate this issue?

Thank you for your assistance

Good morning Julie,

Thank you for your email. I have looked over your AP courses and unfortunately they are coded correctly. Every AP exam that is offered has already been assigned course codes in our system so that we award every student that takes the same course gets the same course codes. The two AP exams that you are referring to unfortunately duplicate each other and I cannot change the course codes on them. I do apologize for the confusion and the inconvenience.

Have a great day!

Richard Strauss
Senior Learner Services



Thank you for taking the time to respond to my question. I must say that I am shocked that the established policy is that those exams duplicate each other. I could understand that if someone just read the title of the exams, they might make that assumption, but I couldn't fathom anyone actually examining the content of those exams and coming to that conclusion. Additionally, the policy feels as if it contradicts the policy for CLEP exams - the English Literature CLEP does not duplicate the Comp CLEP.

Is there a way to ask for this policy to be re-evaluated? I'd love the opportunity to discuss this matter with the decision makers who set the policy.



Dear Julie,

I have attached the AP exam descriptions below. Thomas Edison State College did not do the review for the examinations, we award credit based on the ACE credit recommendation. In both of the AP exam descriptions below, the skills measured are very similar – read and analyze prose and demonstrate skills in writing by writing essays.

[cookderosa]

I heard back from TESC today on the English Courses. They insist that they are duplicate tests. See the email exchange below:

I believe that two of my Advanced Placement tests were erroneously coded as duplicates. Past students have had them coded as follows:
English Language and Comp: ENG101/102 (6 credits)
English Literature: LIT208/209 (6 credits)
The description for the AP English Literature exam is as follows:
"An AP English Literature and Composition course engages students in the careful reading and critical analysis of literature. Through the close reading of selected texts, students deepen their understanding of the ways writers use language to provide both meaning and pleasure for their readers. Students consider a work’s structure, style and themes, as well as such smaller-scale elements as the use of figurative language, imagery, symbolism and tone. According to surveys of comparable curricula at four-year colleges and universities, it is equivalent to a two-semester introductory college course in literary analysis."

Further, the comparable English Literature CLEP exam is listed on your website as being credited as LIT-208/209-CE English Literature.

Would it be possible to ask for someone to reevaluate this issue?

Thank you for your assistance

Good morning Julie,

Thank you for your email. I have looked over your AP courses and unfortunately they are coded correctly. Every AP exam that is offered has already been assigned course codes in our system so that we award every student that takes the same course gets the same course codes. The two AP exams that you are referring to unfortunately duplicate each other and I cannot change the course codes on them. I do apologize for the confusion and the inconvenience.

Have a great day!

Richard Strauss
Senior Learner Services



Thank you for taking the time to respond to my question. I must say that I am shocked that the established policy is that those exams duplicate each other. I could understand that if someone just read the title of the exams, they might make that assumption, but I couldn't fathom anyone actually examining the content of those exams and coming to that conclusion. Additionally, the policy feels as if it contradicts the policy for CLEP exams - the English Literature CLEP does not duplicate the Comp CLEP.

Is there a way to ask for this policy to be re-evaluated? I'd love the opportunity to discuss this matter with the decision makers who set the policy.



Dear Julie,

I have attached the AP exam descriptions below. Thomas Edison State College did not do the review for the examinations, we award credit based on the ACE credit recommendation. In both of the AP exam descriptions below, the skills measured are very similar – read and analyze prose and demonstrate skills in writing by writing essays.

I love your gusto!
So, here's why I think you need to push this. (see red) She's wrong.
She's quoting the English Composition, not Literature.

I'm also asking for help from other veteran members here- how to find ACE evaluation when it's not in the ACE database. The AP and CLEP exams are not in the ACE database, so we can't pull these up and quote them for this "senior" learner services worker.

We need to press her.

Here is the AP pdf for LANGUAGE: http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalSer...erview.pdf
Here is the AP pdf for LITERATURE: http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalSer...erview.pdf

Both documents clearly state that they are 2 courses, not 1. The content is clearly completely different.

What are the odds that ACE made a mistake? Miniscule. My money says someone at TESC looked it up wrong. They may have even coded it into THEIR computer wrong. But, TESC is wrong.

[Soonersiren]

I'm thinking that I should contact ACE and ask for a written statement on their recommendation on those two exams. If this is actually the case, I know several high schoolers who need to be informed.

[hsfamfun]

I do think this should be pursued, because it is wrong. However, TESC is not the only college with this policy. A young college freshman that our family is close to found this out the hard way last year when those 2 AP exams were ruled duplicate by the small Christian Liberal Arts college that she chose to attend.

[cookderosa]

I do think this should be pursued, because it is wrong. However, TESC is not the only college with this policy. A young college freshman that our family is close to found this out the hard way last year when those 2 AP exams were ruled duplicate by the small Christian Liberal Arts college that she chose to attend.

POW! Thanks to NAP for finding this page for me.
http://www2.acenet.edu/credit/?fuseactio...ICE=300271


It appears, based on the ACE evaluation, that there is still enough of a difference that I'd fight this. It's the DESCRIPTION that's the problem, but if you look at SKILLS they are clearly different. Also, College Board's own website clearly shows these as being 2 different classes with VERY different content and outcomes.


AP English Literature and Composition
Credit Type: Exam
ACE Course Number: 0010
Organization: College Board Advanced Placement (APÂ) Examinations
Location: College Board Examination Test Sites, Worldwide.
Length: 3 hours.
Dates Offered: 4/1/1994 - Present
Description: A 3-hour examination covering a full-year introductory college English course. Includes 60 minutes of multiple- choice questions and 120 minutes of free-response questions.
Skills Measured: The examination covers a one-year introductory literature and composition course. The examination tests the student's ability to read selected poems and prose passages analytically and to write critical or analytical essays based on poems, prose passages, and complete novels or plays.
Credit Recommendation: At the lower division baccalaureate/associate level, 6 semester hours of credit are recommended for examinees with a score of 3 or above.

AP English Language and Composition
Select the date range in which the course/exam was completed:
Credit Type: Exam
ACE Course Number: 0009
Organization: College Board Advanced Placement (APÂ) Examinations
Location: College Board Examination Test Sites, Worldwide.
Length: 3 hours (15 minutes).
Dates Offered: 1/1/2007 - Present
Description: A 3-hour and 15-minute examination covering a full-year introductory college course in English language and composition. Section I (1 hour) consists of multiple-choice questions, and Section II (2 hours and 15 minutes) is composed of free-response questions, including a 15-minute reading period. Two of the essays address the topics related to rhetoric and the third essay requires a synthesis of sources.
Skills Measured: The examination tests the students' skills in analyzing the reasoning and the expression of ideas in prose passages and asks students to demonstrate their skill in composition by writing essays in various rhetorical modes.
Credit Recommendation: At the lower division baccalaureate/associate degree level, 6 semester hours of credit are recommended for examinees with a grade of 3 or above (1/08)

[Soonersiren]

Those descriptions are exactly what the TESC adviser sent me. You are right, the ACE description is the problem. It's nowhere close to the College Board description. I have emailed both ACE and the College Board asking for clarification on the issue.

[cookderosa]

Those descriptions are exactly what the TESC adviser sent me. You are right, the ACE description is the problem. It's nowhere close to the College Board description. I have emailed both ACE and the College Board asking for clarification on the issue.

Whether or not you get the credit, I want to commend you on pursuing this. (and isn't it fun too?)hilarious