automatic fail for absences

[Tedium]

I don't think the policy is that strict. I've worked front desk at several hotels and at one hotel if someone showed up late to work once, they were let go. Both of the B&M schools I attended had rules like that in place. I think they are good ideas, personally. Cuts down on a lot of BS and headaches.

[Daithi]

@daithi - Do you know if she would fail after being late a certain number of times?

I'm not sure about that. It was quite a few years ago, so technically she probably only had to pass the mid-term and final. However, I think the bottom line is that you have to live with whatever rules the school decides upon. They set rules and you follow them. That's just how it works. (Nothing wrong with doing a little whinnying about the rules though. )

A lot of traditional schooling really doesn't have anything at all to do with education and learning. Whether we like it or not (and I don't) a big part is conformity. This is one of the reasons I like testing out so much. I'm quite capable of learning on my own, so all I need to do is take a test to prove that I've learned the material. I don't have to worry about meeting artificial deadlines, or learning at the teacher's desired rate, or following rules, or kissing butt.

[ShotoJuku]

Where I teach the policy is that a student is automatically dropped when they have three consecutive absences thus making the school the "bad guy" rather than the instructor.

[Melberry24]

I think the lateness policy is a bit extreme. Especially as sometimes, things really do happen to prevent one from arriving on time like the weather, traffic, personal issues etc.

In my undergrad, 3 lateness equaled an absence and 3 abs was automatic failure (I went to a private NYS university).

In graduate school (another private NY university, not the same one) the current policy is 2 latenesses equal 1 absence and more than 2 absences is an automatic failure, no exceptions. I've heard through the rumor mill (school is small, only 175 in my specific program) people have tried to fight the policy but no one has won.

[cookderosa]

@cookderosa - I understand the fail or failure to withdraw for someone who doesn't show up to class at all. However, this teacher has it setup to where if you are late to class 3 times then that is an automatic failure. Missing out on 3 minutes of class is a lot different than 6 hours of class, which is a lot different than never showing up the entire semester.

If the teacher shows up late three times throughout the course of the semester is he going to pay his salary for the entire semester back to the University? I think not. However, that's exactly what he is doing to students with his policy since students' grades are essentially their "paycheck" for that class.

It's hoops. Not to sound flippant, but in my opinion, most (not some- MOST) of the credential earning process is just putting up with crap necessary to get the piece of paper. Many people drop out of school simply because they don't want to put up with the crap. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm saying you have no power other than deciding what YOU are going to do once you see the hoop. Sometimes school is crappy, sometimes teachers are crappy, but it is what it is. Opt in or opt out, you do have the power to choose.

[cookderosa]

I'm not sure about that. It was quite a few years ago, so technically she probably only had to pass the mid-term and final. However, I think the bottom line is that you have to live with whatever rules the school decides upon. They set rules and you follow them. That's just how it works. (Nothing wrong with doing a little whinnying about the rules though. )

A lot of traditional schooling really doesn't have anything at all to do with education and learning. Whether we like it or not (and I don't) a big part is conformity. This is one of the reasons I like testing out so much. I'm quite capable of learning on my own, so all I need to do is take a test to prove that I've learned the material. I don't have to worry about meeting artificial deadlines, or learning at the teacher's desired rate, or following rules, or kissing butt.

I should have just read ahead and written "ditto."
As a long term teacher at a community college, when I went back to school I also tested out as a means of avoiding the....uh....what shall we call it?...let's just call it "fluff." Minimize the fluff, BS and hoops, cut to it and check the box. Testing out is about fast forwarding past the instructor's academic freedom and straight to the meat of the credit. You should know, however, that MANY PEOPLE LOVE THE FLUFF for the exact reason. If you've ever heard someone say "show up every day and you won't fail" etc., that can't happen in classes where attendance isn't part of the grade. Class participation, essays, and attendance are all double-edged swords. The instructor has all the control when grades consist of those things. It's very much a game.

[cannoda]

I wouldn't dream of having a policy like this unless I were teaching in an undergraduate program at a small residential campus with few off-campus or part-time students. I have no problem enforcing such a policy on traditional age undergrads that only need to make it to class from their dorm room.

It's a different situation for part-time students, especially grad students. Many have family or work responsibilities that they can neither anticipate nor avoid that can make them a few minutes late. They have no control over whether the streets are appropriately plowed after a snowstorm, or whether a major accident on the interstate had them sitting in traffic. And part-time students are far more likely to pay for a class out of their own pocket in today's economy.

I get it that there are some class structures that would fall apart with frequent lates. A class heavily utilizing the Socratic method comes to mind. But is it appropriate to set up a class so dependent on timeliness if the student body is mid-career professionals with families that attend classes after working 10-12 hour days?

I recognize that there are some programs that are constrained by legal requirements that a student's butt needs to be in a seat for a minimum number of hours. Some of the health professions and other disciplines leading to a professional license have rules like this. But for a lot of professors, ego is driving the policy as in "their can't possibly be something more important in your life than listening to me pontificate."

Some professors worry about students abusing a liberal tardy-absence policy. I don't. The problem is easily fixed with pop quizzes and in-class assignments that always seem to happen when my problem students are late or absent one time too many. I always leave enough points for such stuff in my syllabi to effectively deal with the problem.