Is my Excelsior admissions counselor wrong, or is Excelsior no longer "Big 3"?

[wow]

Talked to Excelsior admissions today about the Natural Sciences degree. I have been leaning against Excelsior because they are so opaque about the credits they will accept toward the major, but she called me so I figured I'd try again.

I asked my counselor if I would be able to discuss my degree plan with someone before signing an enrollment agreement. We went back and forth and finally she said, no, that would mean talking to an advisor, and you're not allowed to talk to an advisor until you've signed an enrollment agreement. She said that the admissions application fee only covers them evaluating the credits you already have and says what courses would need to be taken to fill the rest of the degree requirements, but that, for example, if I apply now, they won't be able to tell me if the classes I've signed up for at my community college for NEXT semester would apply toward the degree because they won't be on the transcript that gets sent now.

I said, "Problem is, if I sign the enrollment agreement, doesn't that mean I'm agreeing to pay the enrollment fee?" (It's $1095.) "I don't want to pay the enrollment fee if I won't be able to complete my degree at Excelsior."

"You won't need to pay the enrollment fee because it's waived if you take 12 or more credits at Excelsior, and you'll have to do that given the requirements for that major."

"I'm sorry, I don't understand. The page for that major says you can transfer up to 112 credits in and you need 116 to graduate."

"Yes, but there will be courses you're required to take at Excelsior because you haven't completed them yet, and that will be at least 4 courses."

I was in my car and needed to go, so I finished the conversation and later sent an email asking her to clarify. She wrote:

Thank you for your call today. You mentioned that Excelsior requires Natural Sciences majors to take at least four of the major-required classes at Excelsior. Could you please let me know which of the classes that includes? I was not able to find this information on the website.

She wrote:

You’re welcome! The BS in Natural Sciences degree “core requirements” are mostly only available as online courses, except for the Calculus or Statistics requirement (this you can test-out of it you want).  You can review the degree program’s coursework and curriculum breakdown on the course catalog here (pages 136-138): http://publications.excelsior.edu/progra...e_Catalog/ .
 
In order to differentiate what credits you can take UExcel exams for and which you can’t, you will have to look at the catalog number. Whichever catalog number has an “x” in it, those are UExcel exams . For example, Calculus or Statistics is available as a UExcel exam under the “core requirements” section A. You can see this as MATx150 for Calculus or MATx210 for Statistics.

I wrote:

Thanks. I'm still unclear on which ones must be taken at Excelsior vs another school.

She wrote (emphasis mine):

No problem. What you do mean by taken at another school? Are you referring to transferring in credits? Since the degree is through Excelsior College, the degree programs credits are going to be taken with us. If you are looking to earn any credits outside of Excelsior College then that’s a conversation you’ll have with an advisor once you are an admitted/enrolled student.

That's when I lost it. I understood that I would likely need to take some courses at Excelsior, but the ENTIRE major, including the introductory science courses like Bio, when I could take a class with a hands-on lab locally and for less money? I wrote:

The web page for the major says up to 113 credits can be transferred in, and I'm currently enrolled in a community college taking science courses that won't be on my transcript because I haven't finished yet.

I honestly don't understand why I have to sign an enrollment agreement that contractually obligates me to pay tuition and/or an enrollment fee to your college just to find out what will transfer in.

Am I right about that the enrollment agreement is a contract that involves monetary obligations? Or am I worrying needlessly?

And is it true that "Since the degree is through Excelsior College, the degree programs credits are going to be taken with us"? That seems to go against their entire advertising thrust and their designation here as a "Big 3" college.

[ROYISAGIRL]

Talked to Excelsior admissions today about the Natural Sciences degree. I have been leaning against Excelsior because they are so opaque about the credits they will accept toward the major, but she called me so I figured I'd try again.

I asked my counselor if I would be able to discuss my degree plan with someone before signing an enrollment agreement. We went back and forth and finally she said, no, that would mean talking to an advisor, and you're not allowed to talk to an advisor until you've signed an enrollment agreement. She said that the admissions application fee only covers them evaluating the credits you already have and says what courses would need to be taken to fill the rest of the degree requirements, but that, for example, if I apply now, they won't be able to tell me if the classes I've signed up for at my community college for NEXT semester would apply toward the degree because they won't be on the transcript that gets sent now.

I said, "Problem is, if I sign the enrollment agreement, doesn't that mean I'm agreeing to pay the enrollment fee?" (It's $1095.) "I don't want to pay the enrollment fee if I won't be able to complete my degree at Excelsior."

"You won't need to pay the enrollment fee because it's waived if you take 12 or more credits at Excelsior, and you'll have to do that given the requirements for that major."

"I'm sorry, I don't understand. The page for that major says you can transfer up to 112 credits in and you need 116 to graduate."

"Yes, but there will be courses you're required to take at Excelsior because you haven't completed them yet, and that will be at least 4 courses."

I was in my car and needed to go, so I finished the conversation and later sent an email asking her to clarify. She wrote:

Thank you for your call today. You mentioned that Excelsior requires Natural Sciences majors to take at least four of the major-required classes at Excelsior. Could you please let me know which of the classes that includes? I was not able to find this information on the website.

She wrote:

You’re welcome! The BS in Natural Sciences degree “core requirements” are mostly only available as online courses, except for the Calculus or Statistics requirement (this you can test-out of it you want).  You can review the degree program’s coursework and curriculum breakdown on the course catalog here (pages 136-138): http://publications.excelsior.edu/progra...e_Catalog/ .
 
In order to differentiate what credits you can take UExcel exams for and which you can’t, you will have to look at the catalog number. Whichever catalog number has an “x” in it, those are UExcel exams . For example, Calculus or Statistics is available as a UExcel exam under the “core requirements” section A. You can see this as MATx150 for Calculus or MATx210 for Statistics.

I wrote:

Thanks. I'm still unclear on which ones must be taken at Excelsior vs another school.

She wrote (emphasis mine):

No problem. What you do mean by taken at another school? Are you referring to transferring in credits? Since the degree is through Excelsior College, the degree programs credits are going to be taken with us. If you are looking to earn any credits outside of Excelsior College then that’s a conversation you’ll have with an advisor once you are an admitted/enrolled student.

That's when I lost it. I understood that I would likely need to take some courses at Excelsior, but the ENTIRE major, including the introductory science courses like Bio, when I could take a class with a hands-on lab locally and for less money? I wrote:

The web page for the major says up to 113 credits can be transferred in, and I'm currently enrolled in a community college taking science courses that won't be on my transcript because I haven't finished yet.

I honestly don't understand why I have to sign an enrollment agreement that contractually obligates me to pay tuition and/or an enrollment fee to your college just to find out what will transfer in.

Am I right about that the enrollment agreement is a contract that involves monetary obligations? Or am I worrying needlessly?

And is it true that "Since the degree is through Excelsior College, the degree programs credits are going to be taken with us"? That seems to go against their entire advertising thrust and their designation here as a "Big 3" college.

Hmm that's interesting. I'm enrolled at Excelsior right now and I still send them courses from Study.com, Sophia, etc. They continue to evaluate anything I send them.

---

I'm also doing the Natural Sciences Degree

Talked to Excelsior admissions today about the Natural Sciences degree. I have been leaning against Excelsior because they are so opaque about the credits they will accept toward the major, but she called me so I figured I'd try again.

I asked my counselor if I would be able to discuss my degree plan with someone before signing an enrollment agreement. We went back and forth and finally she said, no, that would mean talking to an advisor, and you're not allowed to talk to an advisor until you've signed an enrollment agreement. She said that the admissions application fee only covers them evaluating the credits you already have and says what courses would need to be taken to fill the rest of the degree requirements, but that, for example, if I apply now, they won't be able to tell me if the classes I've signed up for at my community college for NEXT semester would apply toward the degree because they won't be on the transcript that gets sent now.

I said, "Problem is, if I sign the enrollment agreement, doesn't that mean I'm agreeing to pay the enrollment fee?" (It's $1095.) "I don't want to pay the enrollment fee if I won't be able to complete my degree at Excelsior."

"You won't need to pay the enrollment fee because it's waived if you take 12 or more credits at Excelsior, and you'll have to do that given the requirements for that major."

"I'm sorry, I don't understand. The page for that major says you can transfer up to 112 credits in and you need 116 to graduate."

"Yes, but there will be courses you're required to take at Excelsior because you haven't completed them yet, and that will be at least 4 courses."

I was in my car and needed to go, so I finished the conversation and later sent an email asking her to clarify. She wrote:

Thank you for your call today. You mentioned that Excelsior requires Natural Sciences majors to take at least four of the major-required classes at Excelsior. Could you please let me know which of the classes that includes? I was not able to find this information on the website.

She wrote:

You’re welcome! The BS in Natural Sciences degree “core requirements” are mostly only available as online courses, except for the Calculus or Statistics requirement (this you can test-out of it you want).  You can review the degree program’s coursework and curriculum breakdown on the course catalog here (pages 136-138): http://publications.excelsior.edu/progra...e_Catalog/ .
 
In order to differentiate what credits you can take UExcel exams for and which you can’t, you will have to look at the catalog number. Whichever catalog number has an “x” in it, those are UExcel exams . For example, Calculus or Statistics is available as a UExcel exam under the “core requirements” section A. You can see this as MATx150 for Calculus or MATx210 for Statistics.

I wrote:

Thanks. I'm still unclear on which ones must be taken at Excelsior vs another school.

She wrote (emphasis mine):

No problem. What you do mean by taken at another school? Are you referring to transferring in credits? Since the degree is through Excelsior College, the degree programs credits are going to be taken with us. If you are looking to earn any credits outside of Excelsior College then that’s a conversation you’ll have with an advisor once you are an admitted/enrolled student.

That's when I lost it. I understood that I would likely need to take some courses at Excelsior, but the ENTIRE major, including the introductory science courses like Bio, when I could take a class with a hands-on lab locally and for less money? I wrote:

The web page for the major says up to 113 credits can be transferred in, and I'm currently enrolled in a community college taking science courses that won't be on my transcript because I haven't finished yet.

I honestly don't understand why I have to sign an enrollment agreement that contractually obligates me to pay tuition and/or an enrollment fee to your college just to find out what will transfer in.

Am I right about that the enrollment agreement is a contract that involves monetary obligations? Or am I worrying needlessly?

And is it true that "Since the degree is through Excelsior College, the degree programs credits are going to be taken with us"? That seems to go against their entire advertising thrust and their designation here as a "Big 3" college.

Hmm that's interesting. I'm enrolled at Excelsior right now and I still send them courses from Study.com, Sophia, etc. They continue to evaluate anything I send them.

[wow]

Thank you. Every time I talk to this admissions counselor, I feel like I am banging my head against a wall. I'm hoping it's just her.

Have they been accepting any study.com etc courses toward the Natural Sciences major?

My hand-twisting over all of this is that their tuition is relatively high compared to JC/CC and the MOOC options. I do not want to pay $450 per credit if I can pay less elsewhere for an equivalent course. I was also hoping to get any courses I want to take from other places approved ahead of time so I'm not wasting tuition—in fact, that's what my admissions counselor initially told me would happen after I applied ... but now she's pushed it back to enrollment.

[davewill]

Sounds like the same old thing that TESU used to do where the advisers at the school word their answers assuming that OF COURSE you''ll be taking everything from them. You can tell at the point where the adviser assumes that "test out" means a UEXCEL exam, therefore if there isn't a UEXCEL available you "must" be planning to take it as a regular online course.

I doubt they've actually changed their policies, it's just that they won't HELP you plan outside courses.

[ROYISAGIRL]

Thank you. Every time I talk to this admissions counselor, I feel like I am banging my head against a wall. I'm hoping it's just her.

Have they been accepting any study.com etc courses toward the Natural Sciences major?

My hand-twisting over all of this is that their tuition is relatively high compared to JC/CC and the MOOC options. I do not want to pay $450 per credit if I can pay less elsewhere for an equivalent course. I was also hoping to get any courses I want to take from other places approved ahead of time so I'm not wasting tuition—in fact, that's what my admissions counselor initially told me would happen after I applied ... but now she's pushed it back to enrollment.

Where are you in your degree?

[wow]

Sounds like the same old thing that TESU used to do where the advisers at the school word their answers assuming that OF COURSE you''ll be taking everything from them. You can tell at the point where the adviser assumes that "test out" means a UEXCEL exam, therefore if there isn't a UEXCEL available you "must" be planning to take it as a regular online course.

I doubt they've actually changed their policies, it's just that they won't HELP you plan outside courses.

Thank you!

---

Thank you. Every time I talk to this admissions counselor, I feel like I am banging my head against a wall. I'm hoping it's just her.

Have they been accepting any study.com etc courses toward the Natural Sciences major?

My hand-twisting over all of this is that their tuition is relatively high compared to JC/CC and the MOOC options. I do not want to pay $450 per credit if I can pay less elsewhere for an equivalent course. I was also hoping to get any courses I want to take from other places approved ahead of time so I'm not wasting tuition—in fact, that's what my admissions counselor initially told me would happen after I applied ... but now she's pushed it back to enrollment.

Where are you in your degree?

I have a bachelor's in an unrelated field, so most of my non-major requirements would be filled that way. As for science courses I've taken and finished (not at my previous degree-granting institution), none would apply toward the major at Excelsior because I took them too long ago (they have a cap for courses that will transfer to the sciences—I think it's 10 years?) or because I took them as non-credit, thinking I didn't need them because I already had a degree (how times have changed). So I was hoping to burn through as many Study.com bio courses as possible, as I don't really want to spend the tuition on courses where I already know half the material.

The community college courses I'm taking this quarter (starting in a week) are Earth Science and Statistics. I've enrolled in Evolutionary Biology, Pathophysiology, and a 200-level course called Critical Thinking and Analysis in the Sciences for next semester.

Was also looking at NMJC as a possible source of lab credits.

I am, of course, looking at the other schools. But COSC's is a concentration in a General Studies degree, and TESU's specific degree requirements and residential fee would make it $3-4000 more than Excelsior (assuming they both allow the same amount of courses to transfer in).

---

Sounds like the same old thing that TESU used to do where the advisers at the school word their answers assuming that OF COURSE you''ll be taking everything from them. You can tell at the point where the adviser assumes that "test out" means a UEXCEL exam, therefore if there isn't a UEXCEL available you "must" be planning to take it as a regular online course.

I doubt they've actually changed their policies, it's just that they won't HELP you plan outside courses.

Thanks for the input. I wish there was some translation machine I could use when talking to them so I could get *real* answers.

[sanantone]

I don't think there is a school that will help you plan future transfer credits before you enroll. That's a waste of resources, and it's not what makes the Big 3 the Big 3.

[wow]

I don't think there is a school that will help you plan future transfer credits before you enroll. That's a waste of resources, and it's not what makes the Big 3 the Big 3.

That wasn't the part of the conversation that made me wonder about the Bug 3 designation, it was the "Since the degree is through Excelsior College, the degree programs credits are going to be taken with us."

But yes, what you say makes sense. It has just been very frustrating with this particular advisor, who told me earlier to STOP taking courses from study.com so I "don't waste my energy and money," apply to the school, and *then* they could tell me the study.com course equivalents so I could see if any applied toward the credits I need so I could "decide if Excelsior is a good fit"—which implied they would at least tell me the Study.com equivalents before enrolling.

Is it correct that signing an enrollment agreement is signing a contract and obligates me financially to Excelsior? Because she's also said that in separate conversations. If it's not true, nothing she says is correct and Excelsior is more like the other Big 3, and I can go ahead and enroll and stop worrying about the collections man coming after me if the degree plan they outline for me is too costly.

I'm starting to wonder if the admissions counselors get paid on commission.

[dfrecore]

I don't think there is a school that will help you plan future transfer credits before you enroll. That's a waste of resources, and it's not what makes the Big 3 the Big 3.

That wasn't the part of the conversation that made me wonder about the Bug 3 designation, it was the "Since the degree is through Excelsior College, the degree programs credits are going to be taken with us."

But yes, what you say makes sense. It has just been very frustrating with this particular advisor, who told me earlier to STOP taking courses from study.com so I "don't waste my energy and money," apply to the school, and *then* they could tell me the study.com course equivalents so I could see if any applied toward the credits I need so I could "decide if Excelsior is a good fit"—which implied they would at least tell me the Study.com equivalents before enrolling.

Is it correct that signing an enrollment agreement is signing a contract and obligates me financially to Excelsior? Because she's also said that in separate conversations. If it's not true, nothing she says is correct and Excelsior is more like the other Big 3, and I can go ahead and enroll and stop worrying about the collections man coming after me if the degree plan they outline for me is too costly.

I'm starting to wonder if the admissions counselors get paid on commission.

If you apply and just want an eval, you pay for that with your application fee.  I doubt they will give you any info on Study.com or other ACE credits, which is why I wouldn't tell someone to enroll there until they have 100+cr to evaluate.

If you enroll, then you have to pay the enrollment fee of $1,095.  Find out what the refund policy is if you want to cancel.

[sanantone]

I don't think there is a school that will help you plan future transfer credits before you enroll. That's a waste of resources, and it's not what makes the Big 3 the Big 3.

That wasn't the part of the conversation that made me wonder about the Bug 3 designation, it was the "Since the degree is through Excelsior College, the degree programs credits are going to be taken with us."

But yes, what you say makes sense. It has just been very frustrating with this particular advisor, who told me earlier to STOP taking courses from study.com so I "don't waste my energy and money," apply to the school, and *then* they could tell me the study.com course equivalents so I could see if any applied toward the credits I need so I could "decide if Excelsior is a good fit"—which implied they would at least tell me the Study.com equivalents before enrolling.

Is it correct that signing an enrollment agreement is signing a contract and obligates me financially to Excelsior? Because she's also said that in separate conversations. If it's not true, nothing she says is correct and Excelsior is more like the other Big 3, and I can go ahead and enroll and stop worrying about the collections man coming after me if the degree plan they outline for me is too costly.

I'm starting to wonder if the admissions counselors get paid on commission.

Unlike COSC and TESU, Excelsior doesn't put much information out there about how ACE credits will transfer. For the degree you're wanting, Study.com doesn't really offer anything you couldn't get through CLEP, DSST, Uexcel, or Straighterline. You can find the equivalents for those.

Admissions counselors are notoriously poorly-trained. They have performance measures, but it's illegal to pay them commission. They only need to know enough to convince students to enroll.