Obama's plans for College Tuition

[Farmerboy]

I’m sure I’ll get plenty of disagreement, but I believe the overarching theme of Obama’s education plan is not to give things away for free, but to make higher education more appealing to the masses. One need only turn to some of this “reality tv”, for one shining example, to see that currently, the appeal is not there. People in the academic field whose job it is to prepare young people for higher education realize this. So, coupled with a severely damaged public school system in many places (which “the masses” attend) is a perceived (if not necessarily real) notion that college will be too expensive with each passing year. So the attitude becomes “what’s the point?”, and the manifestation of that is found on the Maury Povich show and elsewhere. Every student is not a super duper Farmerboy. And every parent is not one of these wonderful home-schooling parents on this board. You all get your kudos and such for being motivated, assertive and educated enough to achieve these accomplishments.

My roommate is a teacher in a public school system - yeah, down in the trenches -- and from what he tells me it’s unbelievably bad. These teachers are having a hard enough time actually teaching around discipline issues that they really can’t stop. (It's gone waayyy beyond just talking in class.) And on top of it all they pretty much have to sell the idea of proper education to these kids and their parents. (Oh the parents ! ) It might not be right, but it is the reality. Houston, we definitely have a problem. When I was in (public) high school – a little more than a decade ago, I didn’t have to be sold on education – it was an expectation set before me. But things are very different now.

When I hear about what goes on in high schools now, I am truly amazed. I want to be a ____ when I grow up. HA! That’s an ancient sentiment nowadays in many public school systems. A lot of kids don't have any motivation; they don't know what to be motivated about. Said all that to say umm… there’s got to be a solution or we’re all going to heck if uneducated people keep getting “processed” into the real world and the solution needs to be from all angles – forward (from the school systems) and backward. So don’t hate on Obama’s plan because there needs to be a plan to make education appealing again.

I understand that I am not the norm and that very few people are blessed with the opportunities that I have had. I am also not "hating" on Obama's plan, until I see exactly what he implements I will keep an open mind. I also agree that education is not appealing anymore to most kids. But why is that and how do we fix it? Certainly not by making it free. Think about, the kids don't have to pay a dime out of their own pocket until they graduate high school so making college free is becoming expected and therefore will not make them appriciate education more than thy already do.

[peppamint]

honestly blame the parents. opporunities exist in the world. there are enough programs for people who want to make it in the world. if anything they can always pursue vocational education in america. that is what i believe should also be emphasized.

Yes... I blame a lot of these parents. I live here, in a microcosm of what some would say is the problem with blacks in America. DC! So, I see what goes on. My roommate is not the only teacher I know. My mother is a teacher also. They both tell me how their conversations go when they have to call parents because for example, Dayshawn wouldn't put his ipod away. A lot, not all, but a lot of parents get mad at the them (the teachers) for calling.

I just happen to be black myself, and I can call it in my own family as well -- and we all grew up in the cushy suburbs... one of the finest public school systems in the US at the time. How come all of us aren't shining examples of scholastic achievement. Because some of our Parents ! were too busy trying to keep that boyfriend around or get that fix.

Parents are a child's first teacher. So, when a child, kid, whatever has only had the opportunity to be influenced by their parents.... and doesn't even learn about "opportunities in the world" because their parents don't instill that curiosity... whatcha thinks gonna happen? I'd tell you how some of my cousins ended up in middle age if there were time. I am not saying the whole of America needs to come together to fix this, or that Obama's plan is going to achieve its intended purpose. I am just saying it is what it is. You don't have to feel responsible for it, nor should you, but just because you won't acknowledge it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I don't necessarily believe in handouts... who knows, maybe if I had gotten a few when I needed them, I might... But I do believe in getting my assets up and going to work every day, paying my bills on time and keeping my nose clean. And I don't think Obama's plan amounts to a handout. A hand out would be: if you are between the ages of 17 and 19 and need some dough, here - take up to $4000. If community service is the consideration for receiving additional "aid" to attend college then that's a good thing. I think that community service could even lead people to explore different trades or vocations.

[creationstory]

Yes... I blame a lot of these parents. I live here, in a microcosm of what some would say is the problem with blacks in America. DC!

I just happen to be black myself, and I can call it in my own family as well -- and we all grew up in the cushy suburbs... one of the finest public school systems in the US at the time. How come all of us aren't shining examples of scholastic achievement. Because some of our Parents ! were too busy trying to keep that boyfriend around or get that fix.


I don't necessarily believe in handouts... who knows, maybe if I had gotten a few when I needed them, I might... But I do believe in getting my assets up and going to work every day, paying my bills on time and keeping my nose clean. And I don't think Obama's plan amounts to a handout. A hand out would be: if you are between the ages of 17 and 19 and need some dough, here - take up to $4000. If community service is the consideration for receiving additional "aid" to attend college then that's a good thing. I think that community service could even lead people to explore different trades or vocations.

Alright do you think that there is a big difference between lower class blacks ? because i don't think that the problem lies with black america just some portions of black america.

The $4000 is a tax credit nothing more. Its a refund on taxes. Meaning you have to work.. but honestly its a doubling of the hope scholarship which is a tax credit as well. Doing this for education will only make colleges raise tuition. So that isn't the answer....

[Professor_Adam]

peppamint,
You really hit some things on the head in your posts. Students and young people seem especially lazy in this generation. There's a certain entitlement mentality -- not talking about welfare here -- that says hey I shouldn't have to work hard for this or I shouldn't have to pay for this. They want things handed to them in the workforce instead of starting at the bottom and working their way up.

I say this because in the military my peers (senior NCOs) and I see this in the new privates that have been coming in the Army over the last 4 or 5 years. Their lack of discipline and work ethic is appalling. It seems that the standards have really come down. Kids come in the military expecting things to be easy or to be handed to them -- and in some ways now they are! Many standards (PT, height/weight, customs and courtesies) aren't being enforced like they used to be. It's a sad state of affairs. We practically have to beg soldiers to study for promotion boards and make sergeant!

[creationstory]

peppamint,
You really hit some things on the head in your posts. Students and young people seem especially lazy in this generation. There's a certain entitlement mentality -- not talking about welfare here -- that says hey I shouldn't have to work hard for this or I shouldn't have to pay for this. They want things handed to them in the workforce instead of starting at the bottom and working their way up.

I say this because in the military my peers (senior NCOs) and I see this in the new privates that have been coming in the Army over the last 4 or 5 years. Their lack of discipline and work ethic is appalling. It seems that the standards have really come down. Kids come in the military expecting things to be easy or to be handed to them -- and in some ways now they are! Many standards (PT, height/weight, customs and courtesies) aren't being enforced like they used to be. It's a sad state of affairs. We practically have to beg soldiers to study for promotion boards and make sergeant!

i can only agree...... with all these huge bonus' being delved out to indiviiduals who haven't earned them... they simply feel they are better than others and dont have to try. it should just be given.

[Professor_Adam]

i can only agree...... with all these huge bonus' being delved out to indiviiduals who haven't earned them... they simply feel they are better than others and dont have to try. it should just be given.

Yeah the bonus issue had been (until the recent economic turmoil) a big hinderance to retention. In other words, people were demanding high bonuses or waiting it out until bonus money went up, or simply just not reenlisting. Thanks to the economy this is no longer an issue. ;-) Hopefully it will bring more balance and discipline to the ranks. At least that's what we're hoping.

[creationstory]

Yeah the bonus issue had been (until the recent economic turmoil) a bid hinderance to retention. In other words, people were demanding high bonuses or waiting it out until bonus money went up, or simply just not reenlisting. Thanks to the economy this is no longer an issue. ;-) Hopefully it will bring more balance and discipline to the ranks. At least that's what we're hoping.

for good the bad economy has done wonders for the military enlistments. for bad the economy has been bad for the nation. when the jobs on the civilian side aren't around who can really turn down a job where its hard to get fired, with so many perks!

[Professor_Adam]

for good the bad economy has done wonders for the military enlistments. for bad the economy has been bad for the nation. when the jobs on the civilian side aren't around who can really turn down a job where its hard to get fired, with so many perks!

quite true, but that's the American way isn't it?

[peppamint]

[QUOTE=creationstory]Alright do you think that there is a big difference between lower class blacks ? because i don't think that the problem lies with black america just some portions of black america.

I agree there are some portions of black america who need to be "shaken awake" but it's a pretty grey area as to what those portions are. I think "upper class" blacks are the only ones who consider themselves to be in a "class" at all. And I understand how people like Clarence Thomas can give the middle finger to "his people". It's simply a reflection of his own insecurities. Not saying all upper class blacks feel that way, just thought I'd throw that out there. There is clearly that perception...

A particularly irritating thing I see in the black community regarding a lot of youth is that those who can clearly be called middle class (even in urban settings like dc) would rather be considered thugs or hard core or whatever. These people are the ones who reject hard work (as Prof Adam puts it) and the concept of earning vs. taking - working for vs. being entitled to. There is always the hope that... Oh, they DO realize its just a video they are watching and Peachpie, the video dancer is doing this so she can put herself through college, don't they? And they do realize that Jay-Z wasn't always a "baller", but he did work to cultivate his command of the English language - colorful as it may be, don't they?! NO, I'm not blaming TV for black people's issues, just convenient examples.

And what these middle class black kids don't realize is that there are some real thugs, gangstas, criminals out there who don't think its cool, its just life. The middle class "portion" of the problem has choices, but a lot of them are making the wrong ones. The lower class "portion" is what I would call those who are indeed choice-challenged.

I really don't know where, when some of these black middle class parents stopped being parents... :confused:

[Gary]

I can understand Farmerboys point of view. I believe it is based on the fact of his limited exposure to the black community as a whole. The vast number of blacks live in urban area's as well as the deep south. Which is not where he is from. He simply hasn't been exposed to many blacks. It's just what he knows....

That's my take! Short & Sweet............there