Charter Oak has an actual Major

[sanantone]

I thought it was some kind of placement test to see if you're proficient in English sort of like WGU's admissions exam or taking the Accuplacer or Compass for a community college. TESC's enrollment fee is a burden; that's why I'm looking to get around it by taking TECEPs under the Per Credit Tuition Plan.

Texas State University's PhD requires a master's degree in CJ or a related field such as criminology, sociology, public administration, political science, or psychology. I applied with my security studies degree thinking that would be close enough and got in. They offer the highest stipend in the country at $26k. BUT, Texas does not allow full tuition waivers at public universities. They only allow for out-of-state tuition waivers that end up with the student paying in-state rates. So, a $26k stipend in Texas is like a $20k stipend and tuition waiver in someplace like Michigan since you're still responsible for about $6k a year in tuition. There are scholarships you can apply for. I think they also offer a $10k stipend for those attending half-time. You have to work as an instructional assistant for the stipend.

TxState's CJ PhD program is only a few years old. They just graduated their first students last semester. So far, all of them have gotten jobs. I know one is already teaching at University of Houston. I think the program has the potential to be ranked in 5 or 10 years. It looks like that's what they're striving for since almost all of the professors have come from the best sociology and criminal justice programs in the country. All of the courses are offered in the evening. I don't know if they have plans to offer any graduate courses online in the future, but I heard a professor talking about it. If you attend full-time, you can finish all of the coursework (not including the dissertation) in 2-2.5 years. There are students finishing in 3 years including the dissertation. There are students commuting from Austin and San Antonio including myself.

[sanantone]

I am not all that familiar with the programs offered by TESC, while I think they are a great school the initial enrollment price turned me away. While looking at other schools, I decided to go with COSC. The goal was simply to earn a RA bachelors degree and then go find a good graduate program so I can get to earning a Ph.D in the least amount of time. I would love to hear more about Texas State's Ph.D program in CJ that you are pursuing, I live in Austin Texas which isn't that far from Texas State University. Like you mentioned, I am not that interested in any of the Big 3s graduate programs either, there are cheaper, better programs out there.

I am not sure if COSC offers a test for the english prereq, I think it is a course only but I may be mistaken. That is a new requirement from when I enrolled.

You should check out the online master's degree in CJ offered by Angelo State University. As you can see from my signature, I finished my master's there pretty cheaply. I also got a grant from the state. Since the CJ degree is from the same department as security studies, I'm sure it has the same format and you can possibly finish in 14 months or less. Of course, you could aim higher and attend Sam Houston, but I don't know how fast you can finish.

[clep3705]

Remember, you can't lie on a resume, but you also don't have to give every minute detail.

Sure you can, lots of people do. There are a few high profile cases where the lies are exposed, but most resume lies probably get by. Many people have benefited from falsified resumes and diploma mill degrees. Yahoo's former CEO's resume claimed a degree he didn't have.

[Prloko]

I would say the same if TESC was ranked highly on that completely useless, online degree list. Mentioning that your school is ranked high for online degrees would be dumb. Chances are that the employer wouldn't even ask or ponder on whether you attended school online. Why bring it up unless you have to? Let's be honest, there is still a bias against online schooling. Most people have never heard of COSC or the other two. If they happened to look up COSC and saw that it was only ranked for online degrees, they would not be impressed. Anyone who is completely honest with oneself will realize that these rankings do not make COSC more impressive than University of Florida, George Washington University, Arizona State University, and all of the other well-known universities ranked lower than COSC on that asinine list. University of Phoenix and its sister school, Western International University, are ranked higher than Rutgers. How can anyone take that list seriously? I attended WIU and that school is awful. I'm sure its sister school, UoP, is even worse. I have personal experience with UoP's misleading admissions salespeople -- I mean counselors. These rankings will do absolutely nothing for UoP's horrible reputation.

I was neither agreeing or disagreeing with you. I am making mention of your personality type (Green).

But to reply, ranking is very important to many people, even more so to academic institutions to the point that they are manipulating their figures to be ranked higher. Rankings are definitely not useless. Because we degreeforum members are not ranking conscious, does not mean that the rest of America or the world is not obsessed with rankings. How can you honestly say no one is impressed by rankings; those people are out there. Online schooling (although old to us) is still a relatively new concept to many people. US News is merely trying to find a way to rank and inform the public (and also make a profit) of the merits of these online programs. The metrics may not be 100% reliable, but it's a baseline. Trust me, if Rutger's "online program" ranking increased, they would be boasting it on their website like all the other schools.

In addition, there are many people out there who would scoff and laugh if you told them you attended the UF or ASU whether on-campus or on-line. Does that make the reputation of those schools any less valuable?

But to get to the heart of the matter, it's almost like you're arguing with yourself in these posts. You bring up counter-arguments to subjects that were not discussed. So to get back to the thread subject, do you think COSC will offer more program majors and de-empahsize their GS degrees? Do you think students will find this more attractive or less attractive? Do you feel this will cause a shift in DF students from TESC to COSC?

[sanantone]

But to reply, ranking is very important to many people, even more so to academic institutions to the point that they are manipulating their figures to be ranked higher. Rankings are definitely not useless. Because we degreeforum members are not ranking conscious, does not mean that the rest of America or the world is not obsessed with rankings. How can you honestly say no one is impressed by rankings; those people are out there. Online schooling (although old to us) is still a relatively new concept to many people. US News is merely trying to find a way to rank and inform the public (and also make a profit) of the merits of these online programs. The metrics may not be 100% reliable, but it's a baseline.

Rankings do matter, but the most important rankings are the overall and subject rankings. Overall, none of the Big 3 are ranked and only one has a degree program ranked in the 200s. In order for an employer to know to look at the online rankings, the employer would have to know you attended school online. Because my graduate school is in Texas, everyone thinks I actually lived in San Angelo to attend school. If Angelo State University's online degrees were ranked, the last thing I would do is tell everyone "No, I attended online and ASU's online degrees are ranked high!" I'd rather just have them go on thinking I attended on campus.

Trust me, if Rutger's "online program" ranking increased, they would be boasting it on their website like all the other schools.

This would be advertisement for their potential online students. It wouldn't be expected to raise their overall standing in academia.

In addition, there are many people out there who would scoff and laugh if you told them you attended the UF or ASU whether on-campus or on-line. Does that make the reputation of those schools any less valuable?

More people would scoff and laugh at the Big 3 if they knew what they were.

But to get to the heart of the matter, it's almost like you're arguing with yourself in these posts. You bring up counter-arguments to subjects that were not discussed.

I'm just annoyed that people would think those online degree rankings would be a benefit. While employers are becoming more open, them knowing that you attended school online in and of itself puts you at a disadvantage. Also, the online degree rankings say that many schools with campus programs such as UoP are unable to compete with ground programs. At least TESC's MS in Nursing is able to compete with all of the nursing programs in the country, not just online programs. I don't even know if their graduate nursing program is offered on ground, but I know it's offered online. If it's only offered online, then managing to beat out several other graduate programs in New Jersey would be even more impressive.

So to get back to the thread subject, do you think COSC will offer more program majors and de-empahsize their GS degrees? Do you think students will find this more attractive or less attractive? Do you feel this will cause a shift in DF students from TESC to COSC?

My answer is no for the reasons I already listed.

[DrJohn]

For many of us on this and similar sites, distance education and specifically online education is not new. We have known about it for years. Distance Learning by correspondence has been around for the last 40 or more years. We see nothing wrong with it, we see it as a legitimate way to earn a real degree with all the same rigor and responsibilities as a traditional school, depending of course if you tested out or actually took online classes to earn your degree. The problem is that academia has not truly accepted online / distance education regardless of what they may claim. many universities say they will never consider a true online degree program since as they put it, it cheapens their program...UT-Austin believes this. They offer online courses, but you can not earn a degree online. Many employers do not accept online or distance education as a real degree regardless what you or anyone else tells them, they will believe you gamed the system and didn't really learn as much. My wife graduated from the University of Texas at Austin, she questions whether it is appropriate to display my degree from COSC or not since as she puts it, it's an online school and what will others think of me if they see a degree from an online school. She isn't trying to be mean, but in her world (attorney) (UT-Austin grad) anything less then a traditional school is questionable.

In the real world, there are many, many people who have no idea that COSC or TESC or even EC is an online school. As far as they are concerned it is a small liberal arts school in some state that they have never heard about. If you never told anyone that the school is online or if they never Googled the school, they would have no clue. Hindsight being 20/20 I may have chosen to enroll in the online program at the University of Texas Permian Basin, but I wanted to complete my degree quickly, with minimal expense.

I disagree with the notion that a school with a high online degree program ranking in US News and Reports is not something to boast about. Online education is becoming more acceptable, it is taking a lot of time and eventually it will be a normal every day way of earning a degree. Yes, ranking are very subjective but the fact that your Big 3 school is a ranked school in the online programs category is worth noting. At my job, it has caused many employees to consider COSC because of that reason. Our boss earned both his undergrad and graduate degree online / correspondence and the majority of the employees with a degree took some or most or even all of their requirements online. However, that being said, I wouldn't list that on my resume.

[DrJohn]

"There are students finishing in 3 years including the dissertation." Hey Sanatone I could complete my dissertation in a few weeks if I used a paper writing service...lol. I'm kidding of course. Sounds interesting, I am guessing that there is almost no way to realistically continue working full time and complete that Ph.D program. Do they require taking the GRE or is simply having a masters degree enough? Sounds very interesting. I may also look in to ASU for a masters degree as well.

[sanantone]

"There are students finishing in 3 years including the dissertation." Hey Sanatone I could complete my dissertation in a few weeks if I used a paper writing service...lol. I'm kidding of course. Sounds interesting, I am guessing that there is almost no way to realistically continue working full time and complete that Ph.D program. Do they require taking the GRE or is simply having a masters degree enough? Sounds very interesting. I may also look in to ASU for a masters degree as well.

They require the GRE and at least a 3.5 GPA on master's coursework. The preferred score on the new GRE is 150 for verbal and 150 for quantitative. A combined score of 1000 is required for the old GRE. They also require 3 letters of recommendation and a personal statement.

You can work full-time and go to school part-time. If you don't have time to do the half-time assistantship, you don't have to. You just won't get a stipend. There is a police officer in the program. Currently, they have a 50% acceptance rate. That'll probably drop in the future. The highest ranked criminal justice programs have acceptance rates in the upper 30s.