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Diploma Mills
#71
I have absolutely been specifically asked about butt-in-seat versus online at a job interview. Judging by the conservative, frowning nod and no-comment from the interviewer, I'm guessing "online" was the "incorrect" answer. I think this is a stigma that is going to persist for some time, unfortunately.

For the last seven years I've lived in a D-1 football university town, and it's almost automatically assumed that if you live here, you went to that school.

I can tell you that like mamalbh, I am not impressed by most of the people I've had to work with that walked out of that school with a degree. It's a notorious party school, and relatively known in the region for low admission standards. (Many many students are from Texas because they can't get over the bar for admission into universities there, but still want to go to a big school, so end up here.) The University even brags about their abnormally high graduation rate as a marketing positive, although I view it as a sign of low academic rigor. To put it bluntly, one of the big catalysts that put me on the path to finally churning through enough ACE credits to get a sheepskin was the constant frustration of having to work with this or that complete idiot that had a degree and thinking, "There's no earthly way that person is more educated than me." I've auto-educated in a well-rounded range things over the years, equivalent in my own opinion to a liberal arts education. I finally just formalized it with a degree-granting institution.

So now I suppose I'm going to have to live with the idea that the brick-and-mortar grads may STILL be seen as potentially more qualified because they spent four years of being hung over, butt-in-seat in a physical classroom. It's just a rather funny fact of life.

But it works both ways. Anyone who can't see the value of an online education geared for working adults combined a mountain of very diverse, real-life work experience - and favors a potentially less experienced, less skilled candidate just because they happened to park their butt in a seat.... That's a good way for me to filter out the kind of firms I don't want to work for.

"You'll find in life that everything has an upside." - Robert Khayat.
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#72
The lowest graduation rates are usually at open admissions schools of low quality. The best schools in the country do not have low graduation rates. That is something that good schools try to avoid because low graduation rates are never a good thing. You don't want to have a reputation of taking people's money without giving them something valuable in return. High graduation rates are usually a sign of high-quality instruction. Of course, it's easier to have higher graduation rates when you're selective. When you're not highly-selective, you have to work harder at teaching.

The schools with the lowest graduation rates are for-profit colleges and community colleges, and it's definitely not because they're rigorous. For-profit colleges have low graduation rates because they accept students who can't read well and can't do basic math. Since they usually don't require placement tests, they don't know if a student needs remediation. Oftentimes, for-profits don't even offer remedial courses. This sector is also known for spending a lot more on marketing than instruction.

One of the main reasons why community colleges have low graduation rates is because many of their degree-seeking students have no intention of earning an associate's degree. They just want the transfer credits. Also, a lot of the students need remedial courses, and they drop out because remediation requirements can add a year or more to someone's program. Honestly, most of the students at open admissions schools will never be able to complete college-level coursework.
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#73
(02-26-2019, 12:59 PM)sanantone Wrote: One of the main reasons why community colleges have low graduation rates is because many of their degree-seeking students have no intention of earning an associate's degree. They just want the transfer credits. Also, a lot of the students need remedial courses, and they drop out because remediation requirements can add a year or more to someone's program. Honestly, most of the students at open admissions schools will never be able to complete college-level coursework.

I'm not sure if "most" is correct.  I know so many kids who spend 2 years at our inexpensive CC's because 1) they don't qualify for financial aid, 2) don't know what they want to do, and 3) our CSU-system schools are notoriously terrible at GE's because they are all overcrowded and you can't get the courses you need to even get to the point of declaring a major (it can take FOUR YEARS to get all your GE's completed at some schools, but they are paying for FT enrollment and then taking courses they don't need!).

Also, our CC's offer ADN's and our CSU/UC's don't, so just about every nurse in CA came out of a CC (at least to start, before they go on to a BSN).  We also have tons of certificates, especially in the medical field, that can only be gotten in a CC.

I would guess that it varies by state.  But many of our 113 CC's are not only rigorous (I've had MANY great teachers at CC's and terrible ones at the CSU I went to), but many are enormous, have satellite campuses on/near high schools, offer dual enrollment, teach classes on high school campuses, and all kinds of other things that our CSU's just don't.

Of course, my CC has 30,000 students annually, yet they still only admit 30 students a year into the nursing program...sigh...
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#74
(02-26-2019, 04:09 PM)dfrecore Wrote:
(02-26-2019, 12:59 PM)sanantone Wrote: One of the main reasons why community colleges have low graduation rates is because many of their degree-seeking students have no intention of earning an associate's degree. They just want the transfer credits. Also, a lot of the students need remedial courses, and they drop out because remediation requirements can add a year or more to someone's program. Honestly, most of the students at open admissions schools will never be able to complete college-level coursework.

I'm not sure if "most" is correct.  I know so many kids who spend 2 years at our inexpensive CC's because 1) they don't qualify for financial aid, 2) don't know what they want to do, and 3) our CSU-system schools are notoriously terrible at GE's because they are all overcrowded and you can't get the courses you need to even get to the point of declaring a major (it can take FOUR YEARS to get all your GE's completed at some schools, but they are paying for FT enrollment and then taking courses they don't need!).

Also, our CC's offer ADN's and our CSU/UC's don't, so just about every nurse in CA came out of a CC (at least to start, before they go on to a BSN).  We also have tons of certificates, especially in the medical field, that can only be gotten in a CC.

I would guess that it varies by state.  But many of our 113 CC's are not only rigorous (I've had MANY great teachers at CC's and terrible ones at the CSU I went to), but many are enormous, have satellite campuses on/near high schools, offer dual enrollment, teach classes on high school campuses, and all kinds of other things that our CSU's just don't.

Of course, my CC has 30,000 students annually, yet they still only admit 30 students a year into the nursing program...sigh...

The "most" is supported by the low graduation rates at community colleges. Even if you account for people who will eventually earn a bachelor's degree within eight years, most community college students will never graduate with any degree. The estimated graduation rate, if you count those who eventually earn a 4-year degree without having earning an associates, is around 40%. There are other factors to take into account, such as personal problems, but the biggest issue is that most CC students need remediation. 

I see you, Sapientes. I know you don't like hard facts; you only like anecdotes that appeal to your emotions. I'm posting these facts for people who live in the real world. 

Quote:According to Michigan’s Detroit Free Press, experts estimate that about 20% of students at four-year colleges and universities across the nation need remedial coursework of some kind. But at community colleges, “it has been estimated that 60% of first-time students need at least one remedial course.”

https://www.communitycollegereview.com/b...coursework

Here are some FACTS specific to California community colleges. Not assertions. Not opinions. Not guesses, but FACTS.

Quote:A shocking 70% of California’s community college students fail to graduate or transfer. Learn about the catalysts of the failure and how campuses are trying to turn these dire statistics around.

Quote:In addition, only 40% of community college students achieved sufficient credit hours in school to boost their potential in the workforce.

https://www.communitycollegereview.com/b...dents-fail
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#75
You can look up graduation rates here: https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/

If you are interested in a specific school, look it up. It's too important not to research it yourself.
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