Is It Possible to Become Fluent in Chinese in Just 9 Weeks??

[wow]

LevelUp, have you been to the missionary training center? Because I have talked with a lot of returned missionaries for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and most of them say they were not at all fluent by the time they left the MTC. Rather, they left with enough knowledge to form the basis of further learning once they were on their assignment. Lots of folks tell humorous stories about showing up in their country, chatting up a native speaker, and then not being able to understand a single word of the response.

Many missionaries feel that they are fluent by the time they complete their mission (18 months to 2 years). However, placement tests for studying language at university upon return for the mission do not always bear this belief out. And of course there are missionaries who do not feel fluent by the end of their mission, because they are only comfortable making small talk and discussing religious topics, but do not have the vocabulary and cultural knowledge to read a newspaper or magazine article and understand what it is saying.

I'm not saying the MTC does a bad job of teaching languages. But missionaries are by no means fluent when they leave it.

[rachel83az]

I would expect that most missionaries are at A1 or maybe A2 level upon leaving the MTC. There's just not enough time to get any better than that.

[LevelUP]

No child at the age of 2 or 3 says to their parents, man, this Japanese language is just too hard for me, either move to a country with an easier language, or I just will become a mute for the rest of my life.

Or please be quiet and take my toys away. I'm trying to study the grammar of my language.

I think we have all forgotten what it was like to be a kid and do things blindly without worrying about being a perfectionist.  There is an idea that progress is far more important than perfection.  Overthinking things can lead to paralysis.

I haven't talked to any MTC people, and their experience from one language to the next is likely very different.  Some people may have trouble grasping specific languages.

I can read Spanish, not fluently but can understand what is going on.  Oddly enough, I can understand pretty clearly when Spanish language learners speak with their broken Spanish better than the natives who talk fast.

I plan on doing a 30-day intensive boot camp immersion before long.  So I'm trying to put together a game plan.

[wow]

The brain structure of children is also remarkably different from that of adults. Adults don't have trouble learning foreign languages because they are lazy or not dedicated to learning or don't believe in themselves, they have trouble because their brains are physically different than those of children.

I'm not saying this to discourage anybody from trying to learn other languages as adults. I've studied many languages as an adult. I encourage others to do so. It's a great way to keep your brain sharp, learn about language, and learn about other cultures.

But implying that an English speaker can reach fluency in Chinese in 9 weeks or that adults should be able to learn languages just as easily as kids if they just gave up their perfectionism are not, for most people, an effective way to encourage language learning. That's because they are false for almost everyone, and adults who go into language learning with those expectations are likely to become discouraged very quickly, thinking it's their fault that they can't just pick up a language in 9 weeks (which, interestingly enough, kids don't do either).

Yes, there are a handful of linguistic savants who can gain proficiency in other languages very quickly. They are very rare, just like people who can multiply six-digit numbers in their heads correctly are rare. It's fine to try, but you're not a failure if you don't reach your goal.

[rachel83az]

The brain structure of children is also remarkably different from that of adults. Adults don't have trouble learning foreign languages because they are lazy or not dedicated to learning or don't believe in themselves, they have trouble because their brains are physically different than those of children.

Not really. It's just that children are literally held hostage and forced to do nothing BUT learn a language for several years. Even then, it still takes anywhere between 3-6 years for a child to be able to produce easily comprehensible output. Compared to that, most adults are amazing at learning languages! It only takes a few hundred hours of study for most languages, compared to the tens of thousands of hours it takes a child to acquire his or her first language.

We need to get rid of the idea that anyone is "too old" to learn a language.

[LevelUP]

Linguistic savants are often trained savants, meaning they weren't born with a special gift. They trained themselves.

When was the last time you sat down with a pen and paper and trained yourself to memorize a song? Probably never. Learning songs came to you naturally, and you can recall songs easily from more than a decade ago.

To learn a language efficiently, I think you have to have a deep understanding of the psychology of how memory works.  A word by itself means nothing. It's just a bunch of characters strung together. Instead, if you attach emotion and visual imagery to that word, and now it has meaning.

This is what makes language learning exciting because unlocking language is unlocking the power of the mind.

[LevelUP]

Some Research Questions I Have
1. Why do U.S. schools have such a problem teaching kids to be fluent in Spanish when Spanish is so similar to English?

2. Why do countries such as India, the Philippines, Norway, Netherlands, South Africa have no problem getting all their kids in school fluent in English?

[Johann]

(1) Spanish in US? Same reasons as they have a problem teaching English-speaking kids to be fluent in French here (Canada). (Few outside Quebec and Maritimes (NB) ever are). Each kid gets to speak very little, during class time. Homework is all written, concentrating on grammar, little idiomatic conversation. Kids never speak it outside of class. Learn, go home and forget. In my school days, French was never taught here till high school. That's WAY too late. They start earlier, now, but I haven't seen any big improvement, at least in my kids or my now-grown grandchildren.

Of course, there are some immersion programs - the results are way different, I'm sure. But the hour-a-day crowd ... toujours anglais.

(2) India has WAY more English speakers than US - or any other country does. More than 800 million. Probably way more by now - that's an old figure. It's ingrained in the system - never left when the Brits did. English is the mother-tongue of nearly 5 million South Africans and it's used in business and government. Good info on South African English use here: https://southafrica-info.com/arts-cultur...th-africa/

(3) Netherlands and Norway? Both Germanic roots, as English is, under all the Latin stuff various conquerors (and the Church) buried English in. Plus, Mainland Europeans are used to being multilingual - they deal with their neighbours.

(4) Over 90% of Filipinos can speak English - mostly as a second language. It is an official language, used in business and government, People who learn it get a lot of chances to use it - daily. The country is also a major ESL destination - many schools set up to teach ESL for Asians. Good article here: https://www.britishcouncil.ph/teach/stat...oncerned-2

Summary - to get fluency in any language you have to USE it. Use it a lot - and keep using it or it goes away. People who learn it for an hour a day in school - and don't use it - don't get fluency. That's why so many in US don't become fluent in Spanish and so many in Canada don't become fluent in French. Es muy sencillo. C'est très simple.

[bluebooger]

> to get fluency in any language you have to USE it. Use it a lot - and keep using it or it goes away.

I'm fluent in pig latin and I hardly ever use it

[freeloader]

(1) Spanish in US? Same reasons as they have a problem teaching English-speaking kids to be fluent in French here (Canada). (Few outside Quebec and Maritimes (NB) ever are). Each kid gets to speak very little, during class time. Homework is all written, concentrating on grammar, little idiomatic conversation. Kids never speak it outside of class. Learn, go home and forget. In my school days, French was never taught here till high school. That's WAY too late. They start earlier, now, but I haven't seen any big improvement, at least in my kids or my now-grown grandchildren.

Of course, there are some immersion programs - the results are way different, I'm sure. But the hour-a-day crowd ... toujours anglais.

(2) India has WAY more English speakers than US - or any other country does. More than 800 million. Probably way more by now - that's an old figure. It's ingrained in the system - never left when the Brits did. English is the mother-tongue of nearly 5 million South Africans and it's used in business and government. Good info on South African English use here: https://southafrica-info.com/arts-cultur...th-africa/

(3) Netherlands and Norway? Both Germanic roots, as English is, under all the Latin stuff various conquerors (and the Church) buried English in. Plus, Mainland Europeans are used to being multilingual - they deal with their neighbours.

(4) Over 90% of Filipinos can speak English - mostly as a second language. It is an official language, used in business and government, People who learn it get a lot of chances to use it - daily. The country is also a major ESL destination - many schools set up to teach ESL for Asians. Good article here: https://www.britishcouncil.ph/teach/stat...oncerned-2

Summary - to get fluency in any language you have to USE it. Use it a lot - and keep using it or it goes away. People who learn it for an hour a day in school - and don't use it - don't get fluency. That's why so many in US don't become fluent in Spanish and so many in Canada don't become fluent in French. Es muy sencillo. C'est très simple.

I don’t think anything you said is wrong, but I think it’s a lot simpler than all this: market-driven motivation. 

If you live in Winnipeg or Vancouver how useful is French on a daily basis?  How much better of a job will most people be able to secure because they are fluent in French?  Same for Spanish in much of the US.  If you are in healthcare, construction, landscaping, some manufacturing jobs, and a few other industries, Spanish would be super helpful, but for most people, it isn’t anything near necessary.  This may change with demographic changes in coming years, but even then, I doubt that the difference between low-status and middle-class jobs or between middle-glass and high-income jobs for the vast majority of people will be knowledge of Spanish…

In many countries where English is not the first language, being fluent in English opens up doors to middle-class jobs, opportunities for immigration, and a bunch of other really desirable outcomes. 

I live in the US and speak a little Spanish and my wife is quite conversant in it. Advanced knowledge of Spanish has never been something that I felt like would help me get a job I wanted or a promotion.