Totally BUMMED OUT about Nat. Sci/Math degree at TESC

[bogey72]

I have another thread here detailing my tale of woe. I won't rehash it here but if you want to see the gory details of my first thread, you can look here: http://www.degreeforum.net/general-educa...post110213

I got a call yesterday and was advised that because I already have a Doctor of Chiropractic degree that a BA Nat. Sci/Math degree would be considered a second bacc. degree and I would need 24 new credits in my core area.

Every single time I think something is going my way, I get slapped back down to reality. This news has honestly floored me and I've been a mess for the last 24 hours. I still have to call the advisor to speak about options but this was such a let down that I haven't had the heart to do it yet. I am currently taking two 4 credit hour upper level courses at a local B&M (BI303 Gen. Ecology and BI411 Invertebrate Systematics and Morphology) so I guess that will be 8 hours unless they only count the lecture portion for credit (both are 3 hour lecture with 1 hour labs).

I'll post more when I talk to the advisor. Upper level maths are out of the question. I need some ideas for upper level science/natural science credits. I already saw the ECE Pathophysiology and I think I could pass that with a few weeks of study. Any ideas for others?

EDIT Is the DSST "Heres to your Health" exam considered upper level at TESC?

[ryoder]

I can't help but ask how you get a Doctor of Chiropractic degree without a science undergrad degree.

[NAP]

This is so disappointing! Hopefully, it can still get straightened out.

If not, there have been many threads about this degree lately. You should be able to find more exam options for it by searching this forum.

Please keep us updated.

P.S. I know that it is possible to become a Doctor of Veterinary Medicine without completing a bachelor's degree. (A certain 70 credits of prereq courses and great VCAT scores are needed to be admitted to some vet schools). It is interesting to learn that there are other similar paths that can be taken.

[Yenisei]

All is not lost here. can't you use 9 UL credits from previous study? Look at Ohio U credit-by-exam for some UL bio courses and the MIS DSST in addition to the ECE exam you mentioned earlier. There are plenty of LL testing options for you as well as Straighterline. Don't give up- the finish line is still within sight!

[rebel100]

I think the DSST Substance Abuse counts as UL at TESC.

[bogey72]

Ryoder, almost everyone I speak with about my plans wonders how I have a DC degree without a bachelors. As NAP stated correctly in his post, it was and is (in some cases) possible to attain a professional degree ie. JD, DVM, DC, DO or even MD degree without a bachelors. Most professions have eliminated that possibility but not all. When I matriculated to chiropractic school, Alabama only required the 90 undergrad hours which had to include general ed hours as well as certain math, physics, biology and chemistry requirements. I made the mistake of not finishing my bachelor's at that time. In my defense, I was 20 years old and was working very hard to maintain a 3.5 or above GPA to remain on academic scholarship. I investigated chiropractic and decided I would love to be a chiropractor. I quickly finished my pre-reqs and headed straight to chiropractic school. That one decision I made as a 20 year old kid has cost me greatly. I'm ready to leave it behind and pursue something else.

You can also be accepted to professional school such as med school with a liberal arts degree and a great MCAT (or other corresponding test for other professions).

I wouldn't think that the DSST Substance Abuse would fit into my Nat. Sci/Math Core, but I'll check.

I'll update this after I talk to the advisor.

[ryoder]

Thanks for the info bogey, that is very interesting. Its definitely news to me.

I went through a little shock about the Nat Sci/Math degree a little while ago. I had so many math/science credits and I couldn't use them so that really bugged me.
I ended up using 9 old upper level credits and then I needed 9 more upper level and new credits plus 6 more 100 level credits, and 9 200 level credits.
For me I used CLEP BIO for 6CR, Straighterline A&P for 6CR 200 level, DSST Env and Humanities for 3CR 200 level and then took 9 credits at TESC as actual online courses. Time flies when you are having fun so those courses are now done with and I am all set to graduate.

The DSST MIIS was part of my previous credits as was my 6 credits in calculus. The Network technology TECEP is upper level credit as well. You can also look into the PLAs they offer at TESC and do one of those. Check out the PLA database on their site for a massive list of them.

[cookderosa]

I have another thread here detailing my tale of woe. I won't rehash it here but if you want to see the gory details of my first thread, you can look here: http://www.degreeforum.net/general-educa...post110213

I got a call yesterday and was advised that because I already have a Doctor of Chiropractic degree that a BA Nat. Sci/Math degree would be considered a second bacc. degree and I would need 24 new credits in my core area.

Every single time I think something is going my way, I get slapped back down to reality. This news has honestly floored me and I've been a mess for the last 24 hours. I still have to call the advisor to speak about options but this was such a let down that I haven't had the heart to do it yet. I am currently taking two 4 credit hour upper level courses at a local B&M (BI303 Gen. Ecology and BI411 Invertebrate Systematics and Morphology) so I guess that will be 8 hours unless they only count the lecture portion for credit (both are 3 hour lecture with 1 hour labs).

I'll post more when I talk to the advisor. Upper level maths are out of the question. I need some ideas for upper level science/natural science credits. I already saw the ECE Pathophysiology and I think I could pass that with a few weeks of study. Any ideas for others?

EDIT Is the DSST "Heres to your Health" exam considered upper level at TESC?

I read your OP but forgive me for not reading the entire thread if this has already been suggested. My first question is would you be happy teaching college biology instead of high school biology? It's going to be a MUCH EASIER and faster route to do so. In fact, all regional accreditors require a masters in the subject or any masters with 18 credits in the subject you are going to teach *this is true in biology, however, there are exceptions in the health sciences inwhich you would not need 18, but I won't go into those. Also, every school can have higher requirements, but this is the standard.

In any event, if you would like to try CC teaching, you could take 5 classes instead of an entire undergrad degree. Just a thought.

P.S. for grad level bio with no entrance requirements, try Harvard *yes THE Harvard. They have online grad level bio, each class is 4 credits (not lab) and runs 2 grand per. Harvard University go to the college of continuing education to see a class list.

P.S.S. I've taken classes there (and am registering again for spring- happy to share my experiences)

oops, one more thing. I looked at Palmer's degree, and it's full of biology. Maybe you already meet the requirements if your school was similar?


*****
Edit: ok, I've just read all of your old thread and this one. I have no idea how I missed your thread before, anyway, graduate credit is ALWAYS upper level credit at TESC. ALWAYS. In fact, I had planned to fill the UL nat sci degree requirements with grad bio classes and then later use them for a grad degree (double dipping). I confirmed this with TESC. I believe that your advisor is mistaken. <gasp> I believe your advisor incorrectly classified your undergrad courses along side of your DC UL courses. This is an error. You need to understand they are not helpful unless you are enrolled (they get a zillion calls per day I'm sure) but your undergrad transcript should contain all of your first 90, and your DC transcript would be used to back fill your UL BA requirements. When you call, speak clearly, and you may need to say it more than once, but inform them again that you do not have an undergrad degree- this will be your FIRST undergrad degree. Speaking slowly helps ;p

*you'll get all 8 of your credits that you're doing now, don't worry. BUT, I still suggest considering community college teaching. I've been with a CC since 1992.

[bogey72]

First, thank you all for your posts. I have been looking at some options and I have come up with some options.

Secondly, I wanted to respond to Jennifer's (Cookderosa) post. I really wish you were correct in that my degree should not be considered a second bachelor's. However, both B&M schools I applied to also considered my first professional degree (DC degree) as a first bachelors. In fact, I found this out when I tried to apply for a TEACH grant in my state. After I was ruled ineligible b/c I already had a professional degree I dug into the fed'l code and found out that the school was correct in ruling me ineligible based on the wording of the law (College Cost Reduction Act of 2007, or something like that). I'm in an odd situation and they really don't know what to do with my DC degree.

I honestly just want to finish up as quickly as possible. The TESC academic advisor checked with another and they both came to the same conclusion that I would need 24 new credits. Now for the positive part. As I mentioned, I'm about to finish up 8 semester of upper level BIO credit at my semi-local B&M university. I also have 8 LL BIO credits that are new. Finally, I took Elem Statistics a couple of semesters ago that gave me 3 new LL math credits. So, I now need 5 credit hours (might as well say 6) of new upper level nat. science credits and 3 credits in a LL social science course.

I've researched it a bit and have come up with a couple of options to finish up my degree:

Option 1: Probably the best way is to take the 6 cr hour ENS-314 Global Environmental Change course offered by TESC and then CLEP a social science.
Option 2: Take the ECE Pathophysiology exam and the DSST MIS exam to get my 6hr upper level credit and then take online social science course with TESC.
Option 3: Scrap the whole idea, run away and live in a self built shanty in the woods.

I'm leaning toward option one.

I would like to post my entire evaluation on the forum with all of the advisor's comments but I'm not sure how to do that and still maintain my privacy by editing out any identifying information. I'll try to figure it out but if someone already knows how, it would save me some time. It is scary how many classes I have taken without attaining a bachelors degree. I could give it to high school guidance counselors as a "what NOT to do" with your life case study.

One last thing regarding teaching at a CC. I have colleagues with DC degrees that teach at CCs as adjuncts but have not heard of any being full time. I can't afford to work as an adjunct with no benefits nor retirement. It might be a good part time gig, but I doubt that it would lead to a FT tenured position. Plus, I really would like to coach at the high school level. However, I would of course jump at a FT teaching position at a CC but I know those are few and far in between whereas there are quite a few local high schools and middle schools that need science/bio/physiology teachers. I'm walking the path and I have faith that I'll wind up in the right place.

Thanks again for the replies.

[bogey72]

I'll try to post my eval here. Don't forget, I have 8 upper level BIO hours that will be completed in early December.

Here goes: (I'll post in THREE parts because it is too long to post in one)

Your current academic program evaluation can be found at
Thomas Edison State College. Go to current students and online student
services to access this resource.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
S.H. S.H. Applied S.H. Comm Coll S.H to Overall TESC
Required to Degree Req Remaining S.H. Applied be Planned GPA Met GPA
120.00 96.97 23.03 27.32 23.03 YES
================================================================================

Source Institution Source Institution

Student: J. DOE Staff: datatel Date: 11/09/11 Page: 2
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Univ of Alabama At Huntsville 3 Life Univ
2 Snead State CC 4 Calhoun CC

BA General Education Distribution (42 SH)

Semester Hours Completed: 40.33
Complete all 5 subrequirements:
A: English Composition (Completed)
> Complete one full year of English Composition with a grade
> of C or better.
Semester Hours Completed: 6.00
GPA Achieved/Needed: 4.000 / 2.000
Group 1 (Completed)
Semester Hours Completed: 6.00
Src Course # Title S.H. Grd TESC # Notes
1.. EH101 Freshman Composition..... 3.00 A ENC-101 *TE
1.. EH102 Freshman Composition..... 3.00 A ENC-102 *TE

B: Humanities (Completed)
> Complete 12 semester hours of Humanities, including at
> least two subject areas.
Semester Hours Completed: 12.00
Src Course # Title S.H. Grd TESC # Notes
2.. SPH106 Fund Oral Communi........ 3.00 A COM-108 *CC *NEW *TE
1.. PHL101 Intro to Philosophy...... 3.00 B PHI-101 *TE
1.. SH202 Intermediate Spanish II.. 3.00 A SPA-102 *TE
1.. MU110 Intro Mu Listening....... 3.00 A MUS-199 *TE

C: Social Sciences (In Progress)
> Complete 12 semester hours in the Social Sciences,
> including at least two subject areas.
Semester Hours Completed: 10.33 Required: 12 Remaining: 1.67
Src Course # Title S.H. Grd TESC # Notes
1.. HY101 Ori & Dev Cont Wld Pt I.. 3.00 A HIS-101 *TE
1.. PY103 General Psychology....... 3.00 A PSY-101 *TE
1.. HY102 Ori & Dev Cont Wld Pt II. 3.00 A HIS-102 *TE
3.. PSYC3301 Human Development........ 1.33 A PSY-210 *TE
__________________________________________________________________ 1.67 credits

D: Mathematics (Completed)
> Complete a 3 semester hour college-level Mathematics
> course.
Src Course # Title S.H. Grd TESC # Notes
1.. MA119 Precalculus I............ 3.00 A MAT-121 *TE

E: Natural Sciences (Completed)
> Complete 9 semester hours in the Natural Sciences,
> including at least two subject areas.
Semester Hours Completed: 9.00
Src Course # Title S.H. Grd TESC # Notes
1.. CH121 General Inorganic Chem I. 3.00 A CHE-111 *TE
1.. CH123 General Inorganic Chem II 3.00 B CHE-112 *TE
1.. MA121 Precalculus II........... 3.00 B MAT-129 *TE
================================================================================
BA General Education Electives (18 SH)
> Complete 18 semester hours from any of the following
> General Education subjects: Humanities, Social Sciences,
> Natural Sciences or Mathematics.
Semester Hours Completed: 18.33

Student: Dr. JOHN DOE Staff: datatel Date: 11/09/11 Page: 3
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Src Course # Title S.H. Grd TESC # Notes
1.. EH230 Survey of American Lit... 3.00 A LIT-205 *TE
1.. SH201 Intermediate Spanish I... 3.00 A SPA-201 *TE
1.. SH101 Elementary Spanish I..... 3.00 A SPA-101 *TE
1.. CH101 Intro to Chemistry....... 3.00 A CHE-101 *TE
1.. CH331 Elem Organic Chemistry... 3.00 C CHE-240 *TE
2.. PHY204 Gen Physics II Lab....... 3.33 A PHY-116 *CC *TE
================================================================================
BA Nat Sci/Math 2010 (33 Sh)
Semester Hours Completed: 11.00

GPA Achieved/Needed: 4.000 / 2.000
Complete both subrequirements:
A: Concentration (27) (In Progress)
> Complete 27 credits in the Natural Sciences. At least THREE
> different subjects must be included for breadth of
> knowledge. A student must earn at least 12 semester hours
> in ONE subject. A maximum of 18 semester hours can be
> earned in any ONE subject area in order to have a balanced
> interdisciplinary concentration. A maximum of TWO college
> level courses equating to the 100 level can be applied
> toward the area of concentration. A deeper knowledge of
> subjects is provided by requiring that a minimum of 18
> semester hours be at the 300 and/or 400 level. **It is
> highly recommended that course LIB-495 be completed to
> satisfy 3 semester hours of this requirement.**
Src Course # Title S.H. Grd TESC # Notes
2.. MTH265 Elem Statistics.......... 3.00 A STA-201 *CC *NEW *TE
_____________________________________________________________________ 3 credits
_____________________________________________________________________ 3 credits
_____________________________________________________________________ 3 credits
_____________________________________________________________________ 3 credits
_____________________________________________________________________ 3 credits
_____________________________________________________________________ 3 credits
_____________________________________________________________________ 3 credits
_____________________________________________________________________ 3 credits

B: Concentration (6) (Completed)
> Complete 6 semester hours of Natural Sciences coursework at
> any college level.
!! Exception
Ok to use 8 s.h.

Semester Hours Completed: 8.00
Src Course # Title S.H. Grd TESC # Notes
2.. BIO103 Prin Biology I........... 4.00 A BIO-113 *CC *NEW *TE
2.. BIO104 Prin Biology II.......... 4.00 A BIO-112 *CC *NEW *TE
================================================================================