University of Mary Dual MBA/MA in Philosophy, 36 cr Total

[MFG]

What is the intent of the dual degree? Philosophy businesses? Most people dont get more than one masters, and if they get one with an MBA it is typically in something more commercializable like engineering or computer science.


Sent from my iPhone using DegreeForum.net

I think the intent of the dual degree in philosophy and MBA is to combine the analytical and critical thinking skills of philosophy with the practical and managerial skills of business. Though I am not sure who's going to get it.

I’m sure people will be interested, I’ve seen all sort of random degree paths suggested here that people do.

This. BTW...Paging Thales.

Those who take Bachelor's in Philosophy often add 2-3 majors (look at me) in business and other applied or affairs fields.

In UK 'PPE' tracks are common--Philosophy, Political Affairs, Economics.

Hope this helps.

[alexnicolas]

Just wondering anyone who had done a graduate degree at the University of Mary? Do online students have the opportunity to do any courses at the Rome Campus? (Maymester or otherwise?)

[MFG]

Just wondering anyone who had done a graduate degree at the University of Mary? Do online students have the opportunity to do any courses at the Rome Campus? (Maymester or otherwise?)

It depends on the Program. Talk with an advisor.

If one wants to do Rome courses as additional courses, I expect they would be fine with that.

There seems nothing like that in the MA/MBA program, at least that would be covered by FAFGSA, but call and check.

[alexnicolas]

Just wondering anyone who had done a graduate degree at the University of Mary? Do online students have the opportunity to do any courses at the Rome Campus? (Maymester or otherwise?)

It depends on the Program. Talk with an advisor.

If one wants to do Rome courses as additional courses, I expect they would be fine with that.

There seems nothing like that in the MA/MBA program, at least that would be covered by FAFGSA, but call and check.

thank you

[mcjon77]

What is the intent of the dual degree? Philosophy businesses? Most people dont get more than one masters, and if they get one with an MBA it is typically in something more commercializable like engineering or computer science.


Sent from my iPhone using DegreeForum.net

This program is for someone who truly values learning and school for its own sake. The MBA made check a box, but the MAin Philosophy will scratch an itch that a perspective student may have had to study this topic deeper. In fact, looking at the curriculum, this program may be for someone who needs an MBA for their job, but really wants to study philosophy.

As you've probably noticed from being on this form and the sister form, there are surprising number of people that seem to enjoy going to school just because they like school. I must admit that I'm one of them. I'd never heard of the school before, but I am giving it some consideration.

[MFG]

Just wish to update everyone on my progress at University of Mary MA/MBA program.

The program is rough, every course more like a 6 CRH workload intensive (but fortunately at 3CRH so affordable). Business is understood broadly as involving any structured enterprise from a charity on. Business courses are looked at in terms of philosophic foundations, and philosophy courses in terms of enterprise/business application. It meets the need that many people in US business and management consulting view business as implemented philosophy. As a consultant I pioneered a lot of this back in the 1970's (I've been retired for decades, and was bemused to see many of my or other's in-the-field inventions not only in common use, but attributed to some come-lately academic as the originator), so this was ideal and they said repeatedly that they were very glad to have me. 

The unifying approach in philosophy is Catholic-informed (read Jesus + Aristotle) ethics, though one is reading everybody from Seneca to Locke and Kant, and in business Philosophy of Management people like Deming and Drucker. Ethico-politically there is the expectation somewhere in each class you look at things through a 'Benedictine Values' lens, from the unassailable reason that Benedictine communities are the or at least among oldest public-access continuous philosophical/business ventures out there, so just maybe they know something. The class texts seem to be focused on deep surveys of each field so you know the current discussion. It operates day-to-day like a Great Books program including many business/management 'great books.' Very often you're given a business topic to research on both managerial /administrative and philosophy angles.

It has a lot of structured assignments so a person can go through the motions but is encouraged to go as in-depth as they want. People in the program (also called MA/MBA with predictable jokes) seem 1/2 for a terminal degree, but several are preparing for advancing on to a doctorate of some kind as well. The classes have extremely bright young students to mid-career professionals to retired people sharing the wisdom, and there was at least one doctorate expanding horizons to then go on for a second doctorate--so it's a good mix. I would say they distribute also about  1/4th each among those going into/background in for-profits, non-profits, government service, family enterprises. The E-Discussions can predictably get pretty wild with a lot of valuable side-information and war stories. 

One is expected as soon as possible to attend an intensive course in management and 'CST' or Catholic Social Teaching at their truly beautiful campus with superior food attendees of which become your cohort or team. In mine I have a bright young accountant with a family business very careful in philosophical analysis, a priest from Africa, a retired sea captain, many health-field people interested in ethics--you get the idea. You get to meet most of the professors personally as well at the intensive, and visit local firms and non-profits using CST.

The professors are exacting (one had me re-do a 100-page thesis to 40 pages) but very understanding and work with, not against you, in getting a good grade and exploring what you wish to explore. The head of the Philosophy Department, Dr. Bungum, is a riot--very deep technical philosopher (epistemology), kind (he organized people wheel-chairing me about so I could attend), and personally quite hilarious. 

The only problem is they don't have a low-cost follow-up PhD in Philosophy or D.A. Great Books program, and are losing potential students and hence alumni donations and bequests to (thesis-model heavy) Harrison-Middleton Great Books/Education doctorate, University of South Africa distance program,  the Dominican Domuni University in Europe, Kairos University in USA, Francisco Marroquin in Central America, University of Staffordshire in UK, Sophia University in Bulgaria. --not to mention from Catholic point of view students from Africa/Asian rim who won't get US scholarships and want fees comparable to African colleges. Standard? No, but it's slowly becoming a thing. These are all programs totaling under $20,000 USD or so--not that amount or more per year. If they had that sort of thing available I would sign up in a heart-beat.

The least philosophical courses were Corporate Finance and Managerial Accounting with most of the work very hands-on problem solving and practicing techniques, recently renamed--and there was an ethics problem every week. Besides CST, they want you examining through lenses of virtue ethics, pragmatism, utilitarianism, deontics. One other thing is the professors gave helpful and sensitive to the student's situation feedback, very concrete and usable.

One of my desirables in this project was crystallize my think on these topics and do essays on them. I'm ending the course with enough material to edit down for 2-3 manuals or books, so this has been a wild success for me. So far, straight A's--plus I began my last course yesterday, Marketing. So far, so good!

BELOW: Curriculum with new names. I think that reflects that students are responding to the intersections of leadership theory/virtue ethics in almost every class, so they put 'leadership' somewhere in the new titles. Personally, I would have put 'Philosophy and applications of' before each title, maybe added 'Analysis' or 'Logic' to PHI 501. Costs: Presently $595 CRH plus any fees, books.

See: https://catalog.umary.edu/preview_progra...&poid=2475

• BUS 505 - Human Resources for Org Success [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• BUS 510 - True Leadership & Management Theory [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• BUS 555 - Financial Strategies for Leaders [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• BUS 571 - Executive Economic Analysis [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• BUS 605 - Accounting Strategies for Leaders [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• BUS 610 - Strategic Marketing [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• BUS 680 - Business and Catholic Social Teaching [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• PHI 501 - Reading, Writing, & Argumentation [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• PHI 550 - Philosophy of Happiness [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• PHI 572 - Ethics [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• PHI 620 - History of Ethical Thought [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• PHI 640 - History of Political Thought [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• HUM 799 - Graduate Studies Assessment [b]0[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  

I hope this is all helpful!

---

[Fofo]

Just wish to update everyone on my progress at University of Mary MA/MBA program.

The program is rough, every course more like a 6 CRH workload intensive (but fortunately at 3CRH so affordable). Business is understood broadly as involving any structured enterprise from a charity on. Business courses are looked at in terms of philosophic foundations, and philosophy courses in terms of enterprise/business application. It meets the need that many people in US business and management consulting view business as implemented philosophy. As a consultant I pioneered a lot of this back in the 1970's (I've been retired for decades, and was bemused to see many of my or other's in-the-field inventions not only in common use, but attributed to some come-lately academic as the originator), so this was ideal and they said repeatedly that they were very glad to have me. 

The unifying approach in philosophy is Catholic-informed (read Jesus + Aristotle) ethics, though one is reading everybody from Seneca to Locke and Kant, and in business Philosophy of Management people like Deming and Drucker. Ethico-politically there is the expectation somewhere in each class you look at things through a 'Benedictine Values' lens, from the unassailable reason that Benedictine communities are the or at least among oldest public-access continuous philosophical/business ventures out there, so just maybe they know something. The class texts seem to be focused on deep surveys of each field so you know the current discussion. It operates day-to-day like a Great Books program including many business/management 'great books.' Very often you're given a business topic to research on both managerial /administrative and philosophy angles.

It has a lot of structured assignments so a person can go through the motions but is encouraged to go as in-depth as they want. People in the program (also called MA/MBA with predictable jokes) seem 1/2 for a terminal degree, but several are preparing for advancing on to a doctorate of some kind as well. The classes have extremely bright young students to mid-career professionals to retired people sharing the wisdom, and there was at least one doctorate expanding horizons to then go on for a second doctorate--so it's a good mix. I would say they distribute also about  1/4th each among those going into/background in for-profits, non-profits, government service, family enterprises. The E-Discussions can predictably get pretty wild with a lot of valuable side-information and war stories. 

One is expected as soon as possible to attend an intensive course in management and 'CST' or Catholic Social Teaching at their truly beautiful campus with superior food attendees of which become your cohort or team. In mine I have a bright young accountant with a family business very careful in philosophical analysis, a priest from Africa, a retired sea captain, many health-field people interested in ethics--you get the idea. You get to meet most of the professors personally as well at the intensive, and visit local firms and non-profits using CST.

The professors are exacting (one had me re-do a 100-page thesis to 40 pages) but very understanding and work with, not against you, in getting a good grade and exploring what you wish to explore. The head of the Philosophy Department, Dr. Bungum, is a riot--very deep technical philosopher (epistemology), kind (he organized people wheel-chairing me about so I could attend), and personally quite hilarious. 

The only problem is they don't have a low-cost follow-up PhD in Philosophy or D.A. Great Books program, and are losing potential students and hence alumni donations and bequests to (thesis-model heavy) Harrison-Middleton Great Books/Education doctorate, University of South Africa distance program,  the Dominican Domuni University in Europe, Kairos University in USA, Francisco Marroquin in Central America, University of Staffordshire in UK, Sophia University in Bulgaria. --not to mention from Catholic point of view students from Africa/Asian rim who won't get US scholarships and want fees comparable to African colleges. Standard? No, but it's slowly becoming a thing. These are all programs totaling under $20,000 USD or so--not that amount or more per year. If they had that sort of thing available I would sign up in a heart-beat.

The least philosophical courses were Corporate Finance and Managerial Accounting with most of the work very hands-on problem solving and practicing techniques, recently renamed--and there was an ethics problem every week. Besides CST, they want you examining through lenses of virtue ethics, pragmatism, utilitarianism, deontics. One other thing is the professors gave helpful and sensitive to the student's situation feedback, very concrete and usable.

One of my desirables in this project was crystallize my think on these topics and do essays on them. I'm ending the course with enough material to edit down for 2-3 manuals or books, so this has been a wild success for me. So far, straight A's--plus I began my last course yesterday, Marketing. So far, so good!

BELOW: Curriculum with new names. I think that reflects that students are responding to the intersections of leadership theory/virtue ethics in almost every class, so they put 'leadership' somewhere in the new titles. Personally, I would have put 'Philosophy and applications of' before each title, maybe added 'Analysis' or 'Logic' to PHI 501. Costs: Presently $595 CRH plus any fees, books.

See: https://catalog.umary.edu/preview_progra...&poid=2475

• BUS 505 - Human Resources for Org Success [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• BUS 510 - True Leadership & Management Theory [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• BUS 555 - Financial Strategies for Leaders [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• BUS 571 - Executive Economic Analysis [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• BUS 605 - Accounting Strategies for Leaders [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• BUS 610 - Strategic Marketing [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• BUS 680 - Business and Catholic Social Teaching [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• PHI 501 - Reading, Writing, & Argumentation [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• PHI 550 - Philosophy of Happiness [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• PHI 572 - Ethics [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• PHI 620 - History of Ethical Thought [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• PHI 640 - History of Political Thought [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• HUM 799 - Graduate Studies Assessment [b]0[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  

I hope this is all helpful!

---

Incredibly helpful, this! Would you describe the MBA as global in its outlook? Does it differ substantially from an Executive MBA? I’m a prospective international student who’s still on the fence because not many have heard of the school plus I don’t know if it leans business heavy (with relevant case studies etc). I’m attracted to the philosophy bit of it but worry that the MBA might not be recognised/respected. Apologies for the haphazard messaging - typing as I go through airport security!

[bjcheung77]

Incredibly helpful, this! Would you describe the MBA as global in its outlook? Does it differ substantially from an Executive MBA? I’m a prospective international student who’s still on the fence because not many have heard of the school plus I don’t know if it leans business heavy (with relevant case studies etc). I’m attracted to the philosophy bit of it but worry that the MBA might not be recognised/respected. Apologies for the haphazard messaging - typing as I go through airport security!

It really depends on the prospective student, MBA's geared for business and non business majors or people who want to continue where they left off (those who took a few classes in business). Executive MBA are geared for those already holding leadership or management roles (thus, executives), the classes do vary as well...

For most, the MBA is a basic or general degree, some would love the MBA but others would think they're a dime a dozen as so many go for this type of degree. Others would want something more concrete or in a subject matter closely related to Business Admin, that's why you have so many MAcc, MAOL, MSM, or similar degrees...

[MFG]

Just wish to update everyone on my progress at University of Mary MA/MBA program.

The program is rough, every course more like a 6 CRH workload intensive (but fortunately at 3CRH so affordable). Business is understood broadly as involving any structured enterprise from a charity on. Business courses are looked at in terms of philosophic foundations, and philosophy courses in terms of enterprise/business application. It meets the need that many people in US business and management consulting view business as implemented philosophy. As a consultant I pioneered a lot of this back in the 1970's (I've been retired for decades, and was bemused to see many of my or other's in-the-field inventions not only in common use, but attributed to some come-lately academic as the originator), so this was ideal and they said repeatedly that they were very glad to have me. [...]

BELOW: Curriculum with new names. I think that reflects that students are responding to the intersections of leadership theory/virtue ethics in almost every class, so they put 'leadership' somewhere in the new titles. Personally, I would have put 'Philosophy and applications of' before each title, maybe added 'Analysis' or 'Logic' to PHI 501. Costs: Presently $595 CRH plus any fees, books.

See: https://catalog.umary.edu/preview_progra...&poid=2475

• BUS 505 - Human Resources for Org Success [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• BUS 510 - True Leadership & Management Theory [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• BUS 555 - Financial Strategies for Leaders [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• BUS 571 - Executive Economic Analysis [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• BUS 605 - Accounting Strategies for Leaders [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• BUS 610 - Strategic Marketing [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• BUS 680 - Business and Catholic Social Teaching [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• PHI 501 - Reading, Writing, & Argumentation [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• PHI 550 - Philosophy of Happiness [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• PHI 572 - Ethics [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• PHI 620 - History of Ethical Thought [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• PHI 640 - History of Political Thought [b]3[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  
  
• HUM 799 - Graduate Studies Assessment [b]0[/b] [b]Semester Credit(s)[/b]
  

I hope this is all helpful!

---

Incredibly helpful, this! Would you describe the MBA as global in its outlook? Does it differ substantially from an Executive MBA? I’m a prospective international student who’s still on the fence because not many have heard of the school plus I don’t know if it leans business heavy (with relevant case studies etc). I’m attracted to the philosophy bit of it but worry that the MBA might not be recognised/respected. Apologies for the haphazard messaging - typing as I go through airport security!

Incredibly helpful, this! 
I'm very glad, thanks!
Would you describe the MBA as global in its outlook? 
Sure. This is the Catholic Church, which is about as global you can get. They have students from different countries. In my current Marketing course we're doing case studies on US multinationals, companies in India, entrepreneurial start-ups in Africa. They're also multi-perspective. You're studying business/enterprise ethics implications reading Seneca, Marx, Aquinas, libertarian free-market economists as Skousen, at one point we were looking at Chinese and Hindu thinkers, research articles from around the globe, etc. The program previously also had emphases on starting NPO's and Public Administration, but these seem to have spun off as separate certificates.

It has a localist component in the on-campus intensive field trip. We examined 3 local co-ops, one of which develops and maintains software for much of the electric grid in the mid-west USA.

Does it differ substantially from an Executive MBA? I’m a prospective international student who’s still on the fence because not many have heard of the school plus I don’t know if it leans business heavy (with relevant case studies etc). 
The MA/MBA is flexible, in my experience they let you run with what you're interested in.

I’m attracted to the philosophy bit of it but worry that the MBA might not be recognised/respected. 

MBA's provide THE OPPORTUNITY for two things: Knowledge/research structure, and connections. The Church is an ecumenical hyper-connector opportunity in itself.

Besides blessings from the Pope and general college accreditation, the MBA program is accredited by 1 of the 3 major specialized US business-program accreditors: International Accreditation Council for Business Education or IACBE  https://www.umary.edu/academics/schools/gary-tharaldson-school-business   

One will read a lot of nonsense online on which is 'best' but they do different things. IACBE focuses on programs that get you ready to go right into or continue improving in enterprise/business especially family, entrepreneur, 'small' (in US under 1000 reports or so). They do not focus on those meant for people with already large corporate experience, family fortunes, or seek to continue into doctoral research (Harvard and AACSB, here I come) or in-between (ACBSP) and tended to attract double/triple majors (Purdue). IACBE tends to focus on quality of preparation and tend to accredit small/religious-tied colleges and state universities. My two cents is for decades I hired applicants from different backgrounds. In general the  ACBSP people tried to keep you out of trouble, the AACSB guys had a (pricey) plan if you were in trouble, and both tended to end up employed by the 'common sense' IACBE graduates. See for yourself and note they accredit colleges outside the US with which you may be more familiar:

https://iacbe.org/accreditation/member-status-information/?_accreditation_status=member-with-accredited-programs&_within_usa=us&_filter_by_location=va

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/aacsb-vs-iacbe

Understand many fine US Business programs ignore all this, having a reputation among certain industries or specialties.

Apologies for the haphazard messaging - typing as I go through airport security!

Hahaha...Well, I hope this helps and keep us posted on your progress!

---

This was sent to me on US Biz accreditors from another forum...
"...ACBE and ACBSP were created by the same individual--John Green. 

I presented at IACBE two years ago and he stated that ACBSP was created first as an alternative to AACSB, whose accreditation process focused upon the scholarly productivity of the faculty and focused little on the curriculum and learning outcomes of the students. Also, only slightly above 10% of all business schools were AACSB accredited at the time. 

According to Mr. Green, when the ACBSP started going in a direction away from student learning outcomes, he created the IACBE a decade later. We just have an accreditation visit by IACBE and I can attest to the fact that, while they were concerned about what the faculty were doing, they were much more concerned about what the students and the educational program was doing."

[bjcheung77]

The thing with accreditation on a business level, is that it's mainly AACSB > ACBSP and then IACBE or no additional programmatic secondary accreditation. AACSB competes with ACBSP in all areas pretty much (both have an extension for Accounting programs), IACBE is more of a catch all that is left over for institutions that want something or just RA is sufficient for them... Oh, for prospective teachers, having ACBSP will qualify for teaching at the associates level, as they accredit from Associates to Doctoral programs, AACSB starts with the Bachelors level.