For a young student just starting out, which of the top three is the best choice?

[topdog98]

AquaDragonfly, I sent you a private message.

[mrs.b]

COSC and TESC are state schools. Sorry, I just had to. :p

If any of the Big 3 offer all of the accounting courses, then I don't see the problem. They are no worse than your no-name, unranked, state or private university. If you're planning to go to some top 100 school, then I'd say go for it.

They are. TESC does not offer all the courses, so there will still be 24,982 transcripts to send which will increase the risk of confusion when applying for a test seat. Never looked hard at COSC or EC's course offering. There will be specific course requirements - all states have them - so that's a list to search for and aim to meet at as few schools as possible (and if they can all be found at one, all the better). Most will be offered in online and/or self-paced format somewhere, so nontraditional (or as close to it as possible) is still possible from the right sources.

[sanantone]

They are. TESC does not offer all the courses, so there will still be 24,982 transcripts to send which will increase the risk of confusion when applying for a test seat. Never looked hard at COSC or EC's course offering. There will be specific course requirements - all states have them - so that's a list to search for and aim to meet at as few schools as possible (and if they can all be found at one, all the better). Most will be offered in online and/or self-paced format somewhere, so nontraditional (or as close to it as possible) is still possible from the right sources.

I wouldn't go that far. TESC offers 10 (30 credits) accounting courses and about 31 (93 credits) additional business courses.

Edit: I reviewed Kansas' requirements. TESC meets all of them through their online courses offerings except for accounting systems and maybe managerial accounting.
http://www.ksboa.org/exam_info.htm
http://www2.tesc.edu/listall.php

[mrs.b]

I wouldn't go that far. TESC offers 10 (30 credits) accounting courses and about 31 (93 credits) additional business courses.

Edit: I reviewed Kansas' requirements. TESC meets all of them through their online courses offerings except for accounting systems and maybe managerial accounting.
Kansas Board of Accountancy -- KSBOA.org -- 785-296-2162
Thomas Edison State College: Undergrad Course Offerings

TECEPs will not count for most state CPA requirements. I have not ever looked a Kansas's requirements (I'd heard they were strict, but it was on a forum like this and it was just someone complaining). At a glance, that person was just whining; Alabama's is more stringent, so I'll use them as an example since it's what I'm most familiar with. http://www.asbpa.alabama.gov/PDF/rules/30-X-4.pdf (see page 4).

The online courses they offer are:

• Principles of Financial Accounting (not applicable and only useful as a pre-req to useful courses since it is introductory)
  
• Principles of Managerial Accounting (not applicable; introductory)
  
• Intermediate Accounting I (3 s.h. as Accounting Elective)
  
• Intermediate Accounting II (3 s.h. as Accounting Elective)
  
• Cost Accounting (3 s.h. as Management Accounting)
  
• Advanced Accounting I (only useful as an Accounting Elective and that is satisfied with the Intermediate versions)
  
• Advanced Accounting II (only useful as an Accounting Elective, not useful)
  
• Auditing (3 s.h. as Auditing)
  
• Advanced Audit (3 s.h. as Auditing)
  
• Federal Income Taxation (3 s.h. as Taxation)
  

Left unsatisfied is:

• Financial Accounting - 9 s.h.
  
• Taxation - 3 s.h.
  
• Gov't and Non-Profit Accounting - 3 s.h.
  
• Business Law for Accounting (having taken TESC's Business Law course, it does not go over Uniform Commercial Code, or it did not when I took it) - 3 s.h.
  

As I was a student at TESC and briefly had some freebie credits available through my Comprehensive Enrollment before I went another direction, I ran TESC's courses by a very nice lady at the ASBPA office and that is where she said the courses would fall. If I'd taken all of those (and I did take a few), I'd still have 18 credits of specific courses to find elsewhere. It's proven more cost-effective to search them out myself from a few select credit sources. That is because I'd already taken quite a few towards a specific degree that was not accounting and it was too late in the game to change directions. For a younger student starting fresh, it will likely be easier to just find a program that offers them all, and that is likely only going to be possible at a more traditional school that maybe offers flexible course delivery options (online, independent study, etc.)

Other states' requirements will differ from that list above - all states have their own mix until they someday standardize the requirements - so it would apply differently elsewhere. Once certified in one state, there is usually a way to qualify in others so long as you meet MOST of their requirements. That's the thing to shoot for, though. In my opinion, at least.

[sanantone]

TECEPs will not count for most state CPA requirements.

I didn't link to TECEPs; I linked to online courses.

I have not ever looked a Kansas's requirements (I'd heard they were strict, but it was on a forum like this and it was just someone complaining). At a glance, that person was just whining; Alabama's is more stringent, so I'll use them as an example since it's what I'm most familiar with. http://www.asbpa.alabama.gov/PDF/rules/30-X-4.pdf (see page 4).

Kansas definitely isn't all that strict. Texas has tougher requirements. I'm not sure I would worry about Alabama's requirements unless I already lived in Alabama. It's not on my list of states I want to move to. No offense. milelol: It's just impossible to worry about every state in a field with little standardization.

[mrs.b]

I didn't link to TECEPs; I linked to online courses.


Kansas definitely isn't all that strict. Texas has tougher requirements. I'm not sure I would worry about Alabama's requirements unless I already lived in Alabama. It's not on my list of states I want to move to. No offense. milelol: It's just impossible to worry about every state in a field with little standardization.

The moral of the story is to seek out the most stringent requirements as far as the type and quality of course requirement, and that will also satisfy the easy breezy states that take anything claiming college-level. From there, make sure the specific course mix required by the state that will be tested in, and that will minimize the risk of wasted credits if an out-of-state move is ever required and the new state's transfer requirements are not met. While standardization is not in force now, it's been discussed; one never knows what the future holds.

As I said, I used Alabama as an example because it is one of the few that I've researched in detail. For someone just starting out who intends to make accounting their full-time career, a bit of preplanning to keep options open doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. Do any of us truly know where we'll be in ten years? Twenty? Thirty? If asked just 15 years ago, I'd have laughed hysterically if someone told me I'd be living in Alabama of all places. My husband and I are actively considering a move out of state, and since we're doing a national search, who knows where we'll end up. If my dream job hinged on my CPA license being transferable, it would be a bummer if that were out of reach because I saved two weeks and $50 on a shortcut class instead of taking a self-paced RA version. Like I said, though, that's my take; I tend to be a cautious planner. To each their own.

[sanantone]

The moral of the story is to seek out the most stringent requirements as far as the type and quality of course requirement, and that will also satisfy the easy breezy states that take anything claiming college-level. From there, make sure the specific course mix required by the state that will be tested in, and that will minimize the risk of wasted credits if an out-of-state move is ever required and the new state's transfer requirements are not met. While standardization is not in force now, it's been discussed; one never knows what the future holds.

As I said, I used Alabama as an example because it is one of the few that I've researched in detail. For someone just starting out who intends to make accounting their full-time career, a bit of preplanning to keep options open doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. Do any of us truly know where we'll be in ten years? Twenty? Thirty? If asked just 15 years ago, I'd have laughed hysterically if someone told me I'd be living in Alabama of all places. My husband and I are actively considering a move out of state, and since we're doing a national search, who knows where we'll end up. If my dream job hinged on my CPA license being transferable, it would be a bummer if that were out of reach because I saved two weeks and $50 on a shortcut class instead of taking a self-paced RA version. Like I said, though, that's my take; I tend to be a cautious planner. To each their own.

I understand what you're saying, but it might not be as simple as meeting the most stringent requirements. Those stringent requirements could be very different from the requirements in the easier states causing you to take an unreasonable amount of additional credits just to meet your own state's requirements and another state's requirements. When you move to a tertiary state that is not even that strict, you still may have to take even more credits. For example, you could meet your state's requirements and what you think is the strictest state's requirements, but when you move to Texas, you're going have to spend a semester taking 15 credits of face-to-face courses. This might make it sound like Texas has the toughest standards, but they're actually pretty flexible when it comes to subject matter. All they specifically require is accounting or tax research and ethics. The 30 UL credits in accounting can be in just about anything. I guess what I'm saying is that there probably is no toughest state that will meet all of the requirements in every state.

I don't know if this is true, but I've read that the CPA license is rather easy to transfer without having to meet the new state's specific requirements in most cases. There are actually many people who earned their license out-of-state in Colorado because they used to only require 120 credits and no work experience.

[mrs.b]

I understand what you're saying, but it might not be as simple as meeting the most stringent requirements. Those stringent requirements could be very different from the requirements in the easier states causing you to take an unreasonable amount of additional credits just to meet your own state's requirements and another state's requirements. When you move to a tertiary state that is not even that strict, you still may have to take even more credits. For example, you could meet your state's requirements and what you think is the strictest state's requirements, but when you move to Texas, you're going have to spend a semester taking 15 credits of face-to-face courses. This might make it sound like Texas has the toughest standards, but they're actually pretty flexible when it comes to subject matter. All they specifically require is accounting or tax research and ethics. The 30 UL credits in accounting can be in just about anything. I guess what I'm saying is that there probably is no toughest state that will meet all of the requirements in every state.

I don't know if this is true, but I've read that the CPA license is rather easy to transfer without having to meet the new state's specific requirements in most cases. There are actually many people who earned their license out-of-state in Colorado because they used to only require 120 credits and no work experience.

You're referring to reciprocity and practice mobility, and you're right that it is much simpler than initial licensing and is becoming moreso as time goes on. AICPA and NASBA have brought most states to at least admit substantial equivalency and are greasing those wheels with only a few states that have not yet brought themselves up to the bare minimum standard.

My prediction is that the next step - because the standardization of the field is slow to develop, but it does happen - is that individual state requirements will be brought to the same level. This might mean some states will need to step up their game while others will be made to loosen up, or it might mean all states will be brought up to make the same high-end standards. Given the ethical standard the profession holds itself to (they are the ones who control all the money, so one would hope it's got high ethical standards), I do not ever see them reducing all states' requirements to include the easy roads.

Let's be honest - one of the common discussions here is "what is the easiest class to meet this requirement," not "where will I learn the most while meeting this requirement." The two questions will generally have dramatically different answers. (Yes, there is the argument that any learning opportunity will yield good results of the learner puts effort into it, but most seeking the easy route are putting in the bare minimum for a pass. In fact, that's also a common saying here: "A pass is a pass." That's not a line of thinking that mixes well with the particular field under discussion.) Straighterline and other non-RA course forms usually comes up in answer to the first question. If my prediction holds true and AICPA and NASBA do continue their standardization trend to reach update the initial licensing requirements of all states, I do not see those types of credit sources making the cut. Planning for that eventuality seems prudent.

[AquaDragonfly]

I am so thrilled to get some answers here! You've given my son and me some things to chew on.

A few comments back:

• It sounds like I don't need to worry about the age requirement if we decide to go with TESC. But TESC seems to want a portfolio assessment for CLEP credits. If my son has a LOT of CLEPs, that would be quite costly to transfer all of them, so unless I'm reading the process wrong, that doesn't sound cost effective.
  
• For financial reasons, we are really leaning towards covering at least 2-3 years, if not all of them, with CLEP and online classes, so that limits us as to what colleges to use.
  
• However, I also think it would be beneficial for my kids to spend some time on campus just for the experience. My son would prefer to attend a Christian university in that case. Any recommendations for Christian colleges that accept a large portion of CLEPs?
  
• To JohnnyHeck, you have me beat there by almost two decades!
  
• My son is looking at accounting right now, but there could be other options for him. We are going to have him take a career aptitude test this year because I want him to be aware of these.
  
• We aren't necessarily staying in NY, but for now that's where we're planted, and Excelsior seems to have a good CPA program built in if that's the way he decides to go. Plus, I love that they have a very friendly form which lists ALL the CLEPs needed for a particular degree! I can see what general CLEPs the other two will accept on their websites, but nowhere else is there a degree requirement list like that!! There's no point taking in CLEPs that he won't need for a degree.
  

I would love any more thoughts on the above.

Thanks so much and have a fantastic weekend!
Lori in NY

[topdog98]

But TESC seems to want a portfolio assessment for CLEP credits. If my son has a LOT of CLEPs, that would be quite costly to transfer all of them, so unless I'm reading the process wrong, that doesn't sound cost effective.

I really hope someone else confirms this because I am no TESC expert, but I think the above statement is false. I don't think TESC requires a portfolio assessment for CLEP credits. TESC tends to be a cost effective choice for most around here.